Cubase 9.5.x becomes unresponsive after closing project (Win10, x64)

[fese]

Hello fellow Cubase users,

I've already posted about this in the TDL forum, but I am currently looking for more people who have the same problem.

The problem is:
After working on a Cubase project for some time, when I close the project Cubase becomes unresponsive and has to be killed via task manager (which says "inactive" as the status for the process).
The problem doesn't appear if I open the project and close it immediately, only after some unknown time working on it.
Using windbg, I could identify the following plugins which seem to somehow cause that behavior:
- TDL Slick EQ GE
- All Toneboosters 3.x plugins
- SGA1566
- EAreckon Transreckon
These are all VST2 plugins, never had the problem with VST3 plugins.
I already contacted Jeroen/TB (quick to answer but "cannot reproduce the problem") and Steinberg support (after long long wait: " we think it is the fault of some directX components, not our problem"), I've posted in the Cubase forum - no result.

This is on a current Windows 10 with newest graphics driver, only a few months old. Never had the problem on Win7.
I also tested Reaper and Studio One and could not reproduce that behaviour there (and before all the Reaper evangelist chime in, no, I won't switch to Reaper...)

This is what the culprit stack trace looks like in windbg:

Code: Select all

0:081> ~*k

   0  Id: 2774.123c Suspend: 1 Teb: 00000000`00327000 Unfrozen
 # Child-SP          RetAddr           Call Site
00 00000000`0014b788 00007ff9`332d9252 ntdll!NtWaitForSingleObject+0x14
01 00000000`0014b790 00007ff8`e8588c7d KERNELBASE!WaitForSingleObjectEx+0xa2
02 00000000`0014b830 00007ff8`e82de576 D3D10Warp!ThreadPool::WaitWhileBusy+0xdd
03 00000000`0014b8b0 00007ff8`e82acba6 D3D10Warp!UMContext::FlushAllRenderingTasks+0xfc6
04 00000000`0014c150 00007ff8`e82aac38 D3D10Warp!UMDevice::Destroy+0xb6
05 00000000`0014c230 00007ff8`e82b8185 D3D10Warp!UMDevice::`vector deleting destructor'+0x28
06 00000000`0014c270 00007ff9`2ff20b7c D3D10Warp!UMDevice::DestroyDevice+0x55
07 00000000`0014c2b0 00007ff9`2ff233b8 d3d11!NDXGI::CDevice::DestroyDriverInstance+0x5c
08 00000000`0014c310 00007ff9`2ff1763a d3d11!CContext::LUCBeginLayerDestruction+0x7c
09 00000000`0014c360 00007ff9`2ff17982 d3d11!CUseCountedObject<NOutermost::CDeviceChild>::UCDestroy+0x19a
0a 00000000`0014c390 00007ff9`2ff2e2ab d3d11!CUseCountedObject<NOutermost::CDeviceChild>::UCReleaseUse+0xb2
0b 00000000`0014c3c0 00007ff9`2ff1b100 d3d11!CDevice::LLOBeginLayerDestruction+0x11f
0c 00000000`0014c3f0 00007ff9`2ff17ef5 d3d11!NDXGI::CDevice::LLOBeginLayerDestruction+0x10c
0d 00000000`0014c440 00007ff9`2ff17dab d3d11!NOutermost::CDevice::LLOBeginLayerDestruction+0x25
0e 00000000`0014c470 00007ff9`2ff17cf4 d3d11!TComObject<NOutermost::CDevice>::~TComObject<NOutermost::CDevice>+0x23
0f 00000000`0014c4a0 00007ff9`2ff17d74 d3d11!TComObject<NOutermost::CDevice>::`scalar deleting destructor'+0x14
10 00000000`0014c4d0 00007ff9`2ff584bb d3d11!TComObject<NOutermost::CDevice>::Release+0x44
11 00000000`0014c500 00007ff9`2ff14934 d3d11!ATL::CComPtr<IUnknown>::~CComPtr<IUnknown>+0x4b
12 00000000`0014c540 00007ff9`302b0921 d3d11!CLayeredObjectWithCLS<CBuffer>::CContainedObject::Release+0x2c4
13 00000000`0014c590 00007ff9`302f4859 d2d1!CHwSurfaceRenderTargetSharedData::~CHwSurfaceRenderTargetSharedData+0x1f5
14 00000000`0014c5c0 00007ff9`302f4907 d2d1!InitializableObject<RefCountedObject<CD3DDeviceLevel1,LockingRequired,DeleteOnZeroReference> >::`vector deleting destructor'+0x29
15 00000000`0014c5f0 00007ff9`302f4ed9 d2d1!RefCountedObject<CD3DDeviceLevel1,LockingRequired,DeleteOnZeroReference>::Release+0x47
16 00000000`0014c620 00007ff9`302f3991 d2d1!CD3DDeviceManager::D3DDeviceInformation::`scalar deleting destructor'+0x2d
17 00000000`0014c650 00007ff9`302709f4 d2d1!CD3DDeviceManager::~CD3DDeviceManager+0x71
18 00000000`0014c680 00007ff9`30306b90 d2d1!D2DFactory::~D2DFactory+0xbc
19 00000000`0014c6c0 00007ff9`30306b79 d2d1!RefCountedObject<D2DFactoryLocking<SingleThreadedTrait>,LockingRequired,DeleteOnZeroReference>::`vector deleting destructor'+0x14
*** ERROR: Symbol file could not be found.  Defaulted to export symbols for C:\Program Files\Vstplugins\EQ\TDR VOS SlickEQ GE.dll - 
1a 00000000`0014c6f0 00007ff8`f122c931 d2d1!RefCountedObject<D2DFactoryLocking<SingleThreadedTrait>,LockingRequired,DeleteOnZeroReference>::Release+0x39
1b 00000000`0014c720 00007ff8`f12a2aa7 TDR_VOS_SlickEQ_GE+0x5c931
1c 00000000`0014c760 00007ff8`f12a5e3e TDR_VOS_SlickEQ_GE+0xd2aa7
1d 00000000`0014c7d0 00007ff8`f12a6007 TDR_VOS_SlickEQ_GE+0xd5e3e
1e 00000000`0014c800 00007ff9`36f04053 TDR_VOS_SlickEQ_GE+0xd6007
1f 00000000`0014c870 00007ff9`36f0ff71 ntdll!LdrpCallInitRoutine+0x6b
20 00000000`0014c8e0 00007ff9`36f0f59e ntdll!LdrpProcessDetachNode+0xf5
21 00000000`0014c9b0 00007ff9`36f0f945 ntdll!LdrpUnloadNode+0x3e
22 00000000`0014ca00 00007ff9`36f0f8c3 ntdll!LdrpDecrementModuleLoadCountEx+0x71
23 00000000`0014ca30 00007ff9`332bbced ntdll!LdrUnloadDll+0x93
*** WARNING: Unable to verify checksum for C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 9.5\Components\VSTPlugManager.dll
*** ERROR: Symbol file could not be found.  Defaulted to export symbols for C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 9.5\Components\VSTPlugManager.dll - 
24 00000000`0014ca60 00000000`16136f3a KERNELBASE!FreeLibrary+0x1d
25 00000000`0014ca90 00000000`1613802c VSTPlugManager!InitDll+0x330eb
26 00000000`0014cad0 00000000`161300f5 VSTPlugManager!InitDll+0x341dd
27 00000000`0014cb00 00007ff9`36d277ed VSTPlugManager!InitDll+0x2c2a6
28 00000000`0014cb30 00007ff9`36d26778 USER32!UserCallWinProc+0x25d
29 00000000`0014ccb0 00007ff9`36d39c17 USER32!DispatchMessageWorker+0x2a8
2a 00000000`0014cd40 00007ff9`36d399de USER32!DialogBox2+0x217
2b 00000000`0014cdd0 00007ff9`36d398a2 USER32!InternalDialogBox+0x11e
2c 00000000`0014ce30 00007ff9`36d39838 USER32!DialogBoxIndirectParamAorW+0x52
2d 00000000`0014ce70 00007ff9`36a9c85d USER32!DialogBoxIndirectParamW+0x18
2e 00000000`0014ceb0 00007ff9`36aa79e0 COMDLG32!CFileOpenSave::Show+0x37d
2f 00000000`0014d0f0 00007ff9`36aa2eb4 COMDLG32!_InvokeNewFileOpenSave+0xf0
30 00000000`0014d150 00007ff9`36a92cea COMDLG32!_CreateNewFileOpenSaveInProc+0xe8
31 00000000`0014d1a0 00007ff9`36a6e2ff COMDLG32!NewGetFileName+0x15e
32 00000000`0014d200 00007ff9`36a6ed10 COMDLG32!GetFileName+0x10b
*** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 9.5\Cubase9.5.exe
33 00000000`0014d260 00000001`41c3be0a COMDLG32!GetOpenFileNameW+0x70
34 00000000`0014e320 00000001`41c123eb Cubase9_5+0x1c3be0a
35 00000000`0014ef30 00000001`40e15477 Cubase9_5+0x1c123eb
36 00000000`0014f140 00000001`40e09eab Cubase9_5+0xe15477
37 00000000`0014f6f0 00000001`41b2786c Cubase9_5+0xe09eab
38 00000000`0014f730 00000001`40e0b404 Cubase9_5+0x1b2786c
39 00000000`0014f8c0 00000001`41a6fadb Cubase9_5+0xe0b404
3a 00000000`0014fa00 00000001`41aa426c Cubase9_5+0x1a6fadb
3b 00000000`0014fa80 00000001`41aa088f Cubase9_5+0x1aa426c
3c 00000000`0014fb00 00000001`41a4261b Cubase9_5+0x1aa088f
3d 00000000`0014fb40 00000001`41a560fe Cubase9_5+0x1a4261b
3e 00000000`0014fb80 00000001`41a5597e Cubase9_5+0x1a560fe
3f 00000000`0014fc30 00000001`41a557b7 Cubase9_5+0x1a5597e
40 00000000`0014fce0 00000001`41c1bbbd Cubase9_5+0x1a557b7
41 00000000`0014fd10 00000001`41c1baf9 Cubase9_5+0x1c1bbbd
42 00000000`0014fd40 00000001`41a40c4c Cubase9_5+0x1c1baf9
43 00000000`0014fd70 00000001`417bbb84 Cubase9_5+0x1a40c4c
44 00000000`0014fda0 00000001`417bb211 Cubase9_5+0x17bbb84
45 00000000`0014fde0 00000001`417be8cf Cubase9_5+0x17bb211
46 00000000`0014fee0 00000001`41d5a6c2 Cubase9_5+0x17be8cf
47 00000000`0014ff20 00007ff9`36633034 Cubase9_5+0x1d5a6c2
48 00000000`0014ff60 00007ff9`36f41461 KERNEL32!BaseThreadInitThunk+0x14
49 00000000`0014ff90 00000000`00000000 ntdll!RtlUserThreadStart+0x21

Those "d3d11", and d3d10warp" and "d2d1" are parts of DirectX. I've checked them in the c:\windows\system32 folder and the timestamp is "18.06.2018", so they are reasonably current, I would guess.
I already did the "sfc /scannow" and "dism /scanhealth" procedure to check and repair problems, but to no extent.

Is there anyone else with that problem?

[fmr]

Suggestion to troubleshoot:

1. Remove ALL of the suspicious plug-ins out of the VstPlugIns folder, and run Cubase again. If the problem goes away, you have located the origin.
2. Now, add EACH folder (only one each time) back to your VstPlugIns folder, and try to run Cubase again. When the problem reappears, you have located the vendor which plug-ins are the cause of your crashes. Now, remove ALL the plug-ins from that vendors folder, and restart the process again, plug-in per plug-in.

It's a tiresome and boring process, I know, but it's the only one thing you can do to really locate (and eliminate) the source of the problem.

Before anything else, make sure you are running the latest update (Cubase 9.5.41). I know that Cubase 9.5.40 introduced some problems, that didn't exist in 9.5.30 and were (supposedly) corrected in 9.5.41. Since I am running 9.5.30 still, I don't know exactly what happened.

[Mushy Mushy]

How long after closing are you trying to exit? I need to give mine at least 4 or 5 minutes.

[fese]

How long after closing are you trying to exit? I need to give mine at least 4 or 5 minutes.

It doesn't happen with exiting. I just need to close the project, the windows closes and after a few seconds Cubase is dead, even when I don't try to exit the program itself but want to open another project...

[fese]

Suggestion to troubleshoot:

1. Remove ALL of the suspicious plug-ins out of the VstPlugIns folder, and run Cubase again. If the problem goes away, you have located the origin.
2. Now, add EACH folder (only one each time) back to your VstPlugIns folder, and try to run Cubase again. When the problem reappears, you have located the vendor which plug-ins are the cause of your crashes. Now, remove ALL the plug-ins from that vendors folder, and restart the process again, plug-in per plug-in.

It's a tiresome and boring process, I know, but it's the only one thing you can do to really locate (and eliminate) the source of the problem.

Before anything else, make sure you are running the latest update (Cubase 9.5.41). I know that Cubase 9.5.40 introduced some problems, that didn't exist in 9.5.30 and were (supposedly) corrected in 9.5.41. Since I am running 9.5.30 still, I don't know exactly what happened.

Thanks, but I am way beyond those steps (also it's no crashes, it's a deadlock). I know which plugins are causing the hang. And it's been there with every Cubase version since 9.5.10 or 20, whatever was current at the beginning of the year.

[JonSolo]

I am convinced that it is something like Nvidia drivers, or even my 6i6 Scarlett (v1) drivers. It is not VST related. My events happen on random projects. The only common plugin I have found MIGHT be Kontakt, but I have had 3 instances of Avenger open on a clean file and after fiddling with sounds and stuff, had Cubase freeze.

Nvidia drivers make sense because of the new video codec used in Cubase (it gets loaded whether you use it or not) and Nvidia always has seemed to mess with my Cubase. I never had a freeze on my older AMD card (under Windows 10). So that is HIGH on my list of issues!

My 6i6 Scarlett drivers should NOT be the issue, but they have messed with the sounds of certain VST ONLY on Cubase. Hexeract is good example. In Ableton, it loads and plays fine. In Cubase, every sound has static at the beginning and end. It even renders that way. Loading ASIO4ALL instead of Scarlett fixes the issue in Cubase. I find that weird since there is nothing different in my Ableton setup from my Cubase setup. Standalone is clean too.

I lean toward Nvidia drivers, but accept that it could be Scarlett. I have also had some weird loss of audio at moments causing me to reload Cubase.

[EnGee]

There is a good article on how to setup nVidia driver installation:
https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/support ... rding.html

Maybe that would help. Although to be honest, I reinstalled the latest nVidia driver with all options on because I need it for gaming. Everything is working fine with me

Personally, I don't have any problem with Cubase, but I don't have heavy plugins and there is only e-licenser usb as a protection, no iLok and no CodeMeter (Reason) anymore!

Edit:
This my settings for Cubase in nVidia control panel:

nVidia for Cubase settings 1.jpg

nVidia for Cubase settings 2.jpg

[fmr]

I lean toward Nvidia drivers, but accept that it could be Scarlett. I have also had some weird loss of audio at moments causing me to reload Cubase.

I had issues with Nvidia drivers before 9.5.30, but that update solved. The problem appeared in a laptop, and affected both 9.0 and 9.5. After the 9.5.30, the problem was solved (but I am still unable to run 9.0).

[fese]

I lean toward Nvidia drivers, but accept that it could be Scarlett. I have also had some weird loss of audio at moments causing me to reload Cubase.

Hmm, then it is something different, I have just plain Intel UHD 630 onboard graphics.
But you said that Cubase also hangs after closing a project?

[danfi]

Loads of people have this problem and I doubt Steinberg cares about it. I suffered for many years with the crash on exit bug with multiple versions of Cubase but now on Cubase 9.5 I get to suffer from this Cubase becomming unresponssive on closing a project. it's really pathetic that a 550 euro program has these kind of problems.

[fese]

Loads of people have this problem and I doubt Steinberg cares about it. I suffered for many years with the crash on exit bug with multiple versions of Cubase but now on Cubase 9.5 I get to suffer from this Cubase becomming unresponssive on closing a project. it's really pathetic that a 550 euro program has these kind of problems.

From what I find it seems rather few people have this problem. There was pretty much nothing to find with google, steinberg forum didn't yield any results...
Are you on Windows 10? Did you open a call at Steinberg? It's probably useless, but still...
Just out of curiosity, to see if it is the same problem, would you be willing to take a memory dump when Cubase hangs after closing the project and sending it to me? I'd like to have a look at it in the debugger.

[fese]

double

[danfi]

Loads of people have this problem and I doubt Steinberg cares about it. I suffered for many years with the crash on exit bug with multiple versions of Cubase but now on Cubase 9.5 I get to suffer from this Cubase becomming unresponssive on closing a project. it's really pathetic that a 550 euro program has these kind of problems.

From what I find it seems rather few people have this problem. There was pretty much nothing to find with google, steinberg forum didn't yield any results...
Are you on Windows 10? Did you open a call at Steinberg? It's probably useless, but still...
Just out of curiosity, to see if it is the same problem, would you be willing to take a memory dump when Cubase hangs after closing the project and sending it to me? I'd like to have a look at it in the debugger.

it's been mentioned here sometimes and I also remember it being discussed on the steinberg forums. I don't really care to contact Steinberg anymore. I already tried to solve the problem with the crash on exit. The outcome of Steinberg support was nothing. They knew for years that the Rewire.dll was causing crashes but did nothing and also didn't give any actual solution to the problem. Cubase 10 is now out, so the same way Steinberg will do nothing to find a solution to the unresponsiveness bug in 9.5. it's very likely this bug is still existing in Cubase 10 like the exit crash existed for many years in multiple Cubase versions.

yes I'm on Windows 10 and I could send you the crash dump, if Cubase actually creates a dump when ti hangs, next time Cubase hangs.

[Keith99]

Happens to me about 90% of the time

[fese]

it's been mentioned here sometimes and I also remember it being discussed on the steinberg forums. I don't really care to contact Steinberg anymore. I already tried to solve the problem with the crash on exit. The outcome of Steinberg support was nothing. They knew for years that the Rewire.dll was causing crashes but did nothing and also didn't give any actual solution to the problem. Cubase 10 is now out, so the same way Steinberg will do nothing to find a solution to the unresponsiveness bug in 9.5. it's very likely this bug is still existing in Cubase 10 like the exit crash existed for many years in multiple Cubase versions.

yes I'm on Windows 10 and I could send you the crash dump, if Cubase actually creates a dump when ti hangs, next time Cubase hangs.

No, you have to create a memory dump yourself when Cubase hangs. For that you go into the Windows task manager, right click Cubase process and select "Create dump file". Task Manager will tell you where the dump was written (usually "C:\Users\yourusername\AppData\Local\Temp\Cubase9.5.40.DMP").
It will be rather big, so best to zip it and put it somewhere I can download.
I am mostly interested if you have the same or similar thread dump as me, and if it is related to specific plugins (only happens with some VST2 plugins with me, never VST3 so far...)

I agree Cubase support is mostly useless, but I am not willing to give up....

Next thing I try is a clean new Windows installation on another disk, and install just Cubase and the "problem" plugins.