Cakewalk Gets zplane élastique in build 2018.09 Build 25

[DeBro]

Yes, that loop fails here, too. I think that you catched the culprit.

But then the question is. Why isn't Cakewalk automatically adding note off events at the very end of midi files that do not have these events resulting in failure when auditioning the files in the Browser? For my investigation, I was using the midi files bundled with the Kontakt instrument DrumMic'a which when auditioned within this instrument loop correctly while the same files in the Cakewalk Browser, the looping fails.
But I don't use the Browser in my music production.

[JoseC.]

Yes, that loop fails here, too. I think that you catched the culprit.

But then the question is. Why isn't Cakewalk automatically adding note off events at the very end of midi files that do not have these events resulting in failure when auditioning the files in the Browser? For my investigation, I was using the midi files bundled with the Kontakt instrument DrumMic'a which when auditioned within this instrument loop correctly while the same files in the Cakewalk Browser, the looping fails.
But I don't use the Browser in my music production.

Probably because a note off event should be there in the first place. It is bad midi format not having a note off event after a note on. Technically there is nothing wrong with Cakewalk's browser. What you expect is that is fixes a badly formatted loop. I am not familiar with the instrument that you mention, but probably those loops are meant to be used within it, so there is nothing for Cakewalk's browser to fix there.

With Groove Monkey the issue is that those are commercial loops that are advertised as compatible with Sonar, among other DAWs, and that is true to the extent that all the Groove Monkey loops I own, like the rest from several other vendors that I have, seem to be well formatted and loop perfectly fine. If some of them don't, it is not any different than buying a library of audio loops and finding out that some of them don't loop perfectly, you can either not use them, or fix them yourself, or ask the vendor to replace them if they will.

Of course it would be better if the browser were more forgiving. For example, Reaper's browser loops the faulty Groove Monkey loop above, so more power to it, but no browser I know is perfect, and Reaper's, that is one I like very much, for several reasons, does not save loops by dragging and dropping, which is much more important for me than this non issue (and is ugly as f**k, BTW).

[DeBro]

Well, when I'm using DrumMic'a within Kontakt and find a midi loop I can use, I just drag it from DrumMic'a and drop it into a midi track in Cakewalk. For this investigation, I dragged a few into a midi track and set loop points at the very beginning and ending of the resulting clips, hit the space bar and they all looped perfectly. The same midi loops when played in the Cakewalk Browser do not loop properly. Also when I'm using Addictive Drums, I preview within this instrument and then drag and drop. The Browser isn't of any use to me in any way, but otherwise, I'm enjoying tremendously the use of Cakewalk in my music productions. I've been there since Home Studio 2002.

[ruslan.st]

Well, when I'm using DrumMic'a within Kontakt and find a midi loop I can use, I just drag it from DrumMic'a and drop it into a midi track in Cakewalk. For this investigation, I dragged a few into a midi track and set loop points at the very beginning and ending of the resulting clips, hit the space bar and they all looped perfectly. The same midi loops when played in the Cakewalk Browser do not loop properly. Also when I'm using Addictive Drums, I preview within this instrument and then drag and drop. The Browser isn't of any use to me in any way, but otherwise, I'm enjoying tremendously the use of Cakewalk in my music productions. I've been there since Home Studio 2002.

That browser confusion can have different interpretation. It easily can be said that that was by design and not a bug. Although its not described in manual, so user should scratch head and investigate that "design" on its own. And then there is internal inconsistency, because matrix is able to handle those "incorrect" loops, but browser - not.

I find it worse than a bug.
This is the essential philosophy of Cakewalk, and probably the reason behind its "commercial success" : user always is wrong.
Under-implement features just up to the good enough level, so if somewhere it fails, you can always interpret and blame the user. His inability to RTFM, his bad midi files, his illogical assumptions about program behavior, his bad PC configuration, bad karma etc. The fact, that most competition DAWs or VSTs can handle specific case better and more intuitive way, is not an argument.

[JoseC.]

The fact, that most competition DAWs or VSTs can handle specific case better and more intuitive way, is not an argument.

Yes, but that is just an opinion, and you know what they say about those. Anyway, that kind of responses is the very same that you get when you go saying that any tool sucks, from a non user perspective, to anybody who does use it. It is not exclusive from the Cakewalk's side.

I could say that Reaper's browser is broken, unusable, and that its users are fools because I cannot drag and drop directly from a track to save, but it would be stupid and a worthless opinion for those who use this tool as it is instead of wasting time thinking how it should be.

[ruslan.st]

I could say that Reaper's browser is broken, unusable, and that its users are fools because I cannot drag and drop directly from a track to save, but it would be stupid and a worthless opinion for those who use this tool as it is instead of wasting time thinking how it should be.

Right, this is why users choose different DAWs according to priorities.

But inability to drag from track to browser in Reaper is a bit less confusing. You try, it doesn't work and you know it is not implemented. You can write feature request and low chance you will be blamed for that.

Loop problem in Cakewalk is more confusing, some loops play, some not, that requires investigation, because nothing wrong happens with your loops in most other DAWs. You find inconsistent implementation (matrix vs browser) and at the end its user fault or unrealistic expectation. Ok, that's fine, every DAW has its own philosophy and tries to satisfy user needs its own way

[dellboy]

This is the essential philosophy of Cakewalk, and probably the reason behind its "commercial success" : user always is wrong.
Under-implement features just up to the good enough level, so if somewhere it fails, you can always interpret and blame the user. His inability to RTFM, his bad midi files, his illogical assumptions about program behavior, his bad PC configuration, bad karma etc. The fact, that most competition DAWs or VSTs can handle specific case better and more intuitive way, is not an argument.

Does "Cakewalk" still exist ?

It was an American owned company which is now owned by an Asian company.

Is there any reason to think that things have not changed big time ?

They have retained the original developers,but is there any indication to think that they, and not the new owner Ming, is now running the show to his own philosophy ?

[dellboy]

I have just tried to drag clips to the browser in a couple of DAWs and it does not seem to be implemented. Is this quite a unique feature to Sonar ?

[ruslan.st]

I have just tried to drag clips to the browser in a couple of DAWs and it does not seem to be implemented. Is this quite a unique feature to Sonar ?

Maybe because in most cases direction is from browser to track and there were not enough requests to implement opposite.

[lfm]

I have just tried to drag clips to the browser in a couple of DAWs and it does not seem to be implemented. Is this quite a unique feature to Sonar ?

Did you try via desktop - I've done plenty transferring projects in Sonar to other daws, mostly midi clips since they are not part of OMF.

My guess it's not possible directly in Cubase either. Cubase events in tracks only refer to project pool clips(I think they call it) which means it's not directly the file referenced in the track but an extract of the file in the pool.

[JoseC.]

I have just tried to drag clips to the browser in a couple of DAWs and it does not seem to be implemented. Is this quite a unique feature to Sonar ?

Ableton Live has a rather cool feature that are .alc files, or Ableton Live Clips. That creates a clip that includes all the track signal path, and it can be auditioned back from the browser without need of inserting the actual track, that is only created if the clip is imported. It works both with audio or midi loops. I like it very much because it works great with hardware synths using External Instrument and a couple of M4L plugins for patch selection and control that I made for my synths. You just create a midi loop, and drag it to the browser, and when you preview later on it sounds exactly the same. The downside is that you cannot drag and drop a raw audio file or a Standard Midi File, you need to retrieve it from its folder.