Arrangement view in Ableton Live is a nightmare! Any tips?

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Yorrrrrr wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:59 pm
Orbit-50 wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:43 am There's three things that I hate in this world. Liver, grapefruit, and Ableton Lives arrangement view. The only way I can work with Live is with my Push 2 and the session view. After that, everything goes to Cubase 10. Takes me no more than 10 minutes in that arrangement view to want to put a hammer right through the freaking monitor screen.
Can't you record your performance with the Push 2 and session view into the arrangement view and then make the necessary edits there with the easy shortcuts and zooming features (especially in 10 and now 10.1)? I've found that's a great way to work in Live. What is so wrong about the arrangement view? I don't get it :-?
For me personally it feels way too cramped I have a very difficult time navigating and editing in it. Also, all of your inputs and what have you, are to the right instead of the left. It's just weird to me. Not a deal breaker for me, but just weird. Also Live is more shortcut driven. I could get used to lots of things, and I'm great with lots of things, but using shortcuts repetitively, is not one of them. I've tried many, many times and I just get frustrated quickly with it.
Now I have another trick up my sleeve because I've been using a Midi Fighter 64 with Bome Midi Translator to send all of the shortcut functions I want, to Cubase 10. So basically I lay out all my most used functions on the Midi Fighter 64, and at press the of a button, can execute my functions and it's been helping a ton, so I might try that with Ableton Live as well.
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Alienware i7 R3 loaded with billions of DAWS and plugins.

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Yorrrrrr wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:34 pm What exactly is wrong about the arrangement view? I don't understand :dog:
One major issue for me is the handling of FX in general and side chain in particular. When the raw track is done I like to "paint" it with - sometimes complex - FX creations which is not too user friendly in Live = routing can be tedious and a waste of additional/unnecessary tracks compared to other solutions. When it comes to plain audio mixdown I miss a huge mixer view for the right 'feel' (in part a psychological thing, of course).

No question, one can do everything inside Live. It just doesn't feel too comfortable for my (individual and subjective) needs.

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Necro threads are nightmares too.

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^^^ :hihi: :hihi:

Live's Arrangement View is simpler than most of the others.
What is does do it does very well though. That's not a bad thing, no DAW does Everything™ so we're constantly living with some perceived limitation or another. It's really a matter of what you do with it, if you approach it like "Cubase, DP, PT, Logic etc. all have better arrangements! :x " then you will never ever notice what it does better than your comparison DAW of choice. If you actually take the time to learn it in and out, then there will be plenty of times when composing in Live where you use Arrangement over the other DAWs etc. That's my experience and continues to be.
I will say this though, I don't get why people bother to use Bitwig, or Live or Maschine or MPC2 etc. for big projects, they suck up a lot more juice than other DAWs and don't really present themselves that well for 30+ track counts IMO.

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machinesworking wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:56 pm no DAW does Everything™
Reaper would like to have a word with you. :P :hihi:
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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Functionally the arranger view works, but to me it’s a hot mess visually. Too many wide lines, uneven track sizes, hot pink velocity markers, etc. I know the focus is live use, and I suppose it works well for that, but it just doesn’t appeal to me at all. The rest of the program I find odd, but not unattractive.

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jonljacobi wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:32 pm The rest of the program I find odd, but not unattractive.
If it helps any, I was able to get over the unattractive thing thanks to the Sonic Bloom skins. Those are really classy skins for Live. You should check them out.
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Alienware i7 R3 loaded with billions of DAWS and plugins.

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The colors aren't the issue. It's more just the general number of lines (folder content, vertical banding, and info all over the place). With just a few tracks it's livable, but when you start getting to 15 or 20, it becomes pretty confusing to look at. And when you nest groups it really starts to add up. They waste so much vertical space it's ridiculous. As a matter of fact, I think that's what really sent me elsewhere for track based stuff. That's all stuff I think doesn't even help with live performance.

Note that my complaint isn't really operational as you can do great production with it, it's about being able to focus on the tracks and pure shape consciousness. I just find it somewhat ugly as I do the MIDI editor, especially the velocity. As I've said. It's pure gut reaction as there are perfectly valid reasons for making stuff so obvious in a live performance program. I just wish they provided visual options for those that aren't using it live.

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elassi wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:58 pm

When it comes to plain audio mixdown I miss a huge mixer view for the right 'feel' (in part a psychological thing, of course).
Reason? 😘

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I think Cubase has about the best mixer. BTW, from my complaints you might assume I don't use Live, but I actually find it super quick for basic tracking. The undo of individual loop recordings is brilliant.

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I will not try to change anyone else's opinion on Live's Arrangement View, I get it...but after resisting/hating it for years I learned to accept how it is and what it does. I've done some very complex sample micro-editing and automation in the Arrangement View, and lived to tell the tale. :lol: :help:

Since getting a Push 2, I'd rather just use Live than faffing about with Logic, Reason, and Reaper (my other main DAWs). If Ableton adds comping that would be great! Would love region-based FX/editing (like Samplitude's Object Editor) but not holding my breath.

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Winstontaneous wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:31 pm I will not try to change anyone else's opinion on Live's Arrangement View, I get it...but after resisting/hating it for years I learned to accept how it is and what it does. I've done some very complex sample micro-editing and automation in the Arrangement View, and lived to tell the tale. :lol: :help:
I totally respect that.
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Alienware i7 R3 loaded with billions of DAWS and plugins.

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The editing is fine now that you can type in exact parameters (LOL), it's just the actual navigating and discerning what's where because of all the lines and stuff everywhere that can be a challenge. And to be absolutely clear, it also looks a bit childish, which is pure shape consciousness and opinion on my part because functionally, it's certainly not. Once you know it, it's really, really quick to get on with. I don't use it live, but I do see that performance is a big part of the design ethos and the rest of us will just have to live with it. So to speak.

As to comping, I think if you get that, it's going to be in the audio editor where there was actually a pretty easy workaround that got a bit messed up in version 10. Comping is not something that's done live, and I can't see them putting that where it might accidentally screw up something. Just a guess, but I hear so much about it.

Really, it's a wonderful DAW and as of 10.1, most of my irritations have been addressed. But for me it requires constantly reminding myself that the really pretty girl in the next house isn't all that.

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My only nightmare is track names being on the right hand side and absence of clip based selection with multi trim fade.

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I'm amending my last comment. I just opened the last 20 track project I did in Live. Gebus. Between the grid lines, the grid zones, the lines demarcating tracks, the lines showing folder content, and the lines from locators, it looks like a school kid went berserk with their new ruler!

Note that the effect is worse on the Mac than it is on with Windows, and it's worse if you increase the size percentage on either as Live also makes the lines thicker.

As I don't work with Live, live, I don't know how important these lines are as visual clues, but it would seem that you could offer options to omit them, or at least thin them more as you zoom out. I'm going to log onto the forum to add some suggestions.

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