KVR Audio

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:01 am

tapiodmitriyevich wrote:Why is Bitwig the only DAW, which offers LFO/Envelope/SoMuchMoreSources based modulation of ANY VSTs PARAMETER and crossmodulation

Because it's quite deservedly a

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:02 am

And BTW: https://www.bitwig.com/en/community/lea ... orial.html

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:59 am

^^^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeWoZ2sUOCs

>> https://dialogaudio.com/modulationprocessor/

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:08 am

tapiodmitriyevich wrote:Why is Bitwig the only DAW, which offers LFO/Envelope/SoMuchMoreSources based automation of ANY VSTs PARAMETER (if exposed) and crossmodulation (as in "LFO automating another LFO")

Really? What is the significant difference with FL's which have been there for decades?...

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:32 am

tapiodmitriyevich wrote:Why is Bitwig the only DAW, which offers LFO/Envelope/SoMuchMoreSources based automation of ANY VSTs PARAMETER (if exposed) and crossmodulation (as in "LFO automating another LFO") - I had some automated multiple multi orgasms in a multisecond when I saw this - they call it "modulators".

It is not that various modulations cannot be done at all in other DAWs (depending on the DAW)... it is how easy and intuitive it is in Bitwig. And it is not just the modulators by themselves, it is the whole integrated system. From the Modulators, to the Remote Control Pages, to the Nested Devices, Device Chains and saving Presets and Templates.

When I use a synth like RePro-1, I immediately have all the Envelopes and LFO's I want to manipulate most any parameter. Bitwig is really fun and invites exploration. I do stuff with it that I just would not elsewhere because it is too much hassle.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:57 am

tooneba wrote:
tapiodmitriyevich wrote:Why is Bitwig the only DAW, which offers LFO/Envelope/SoMuchMoreSources based automation of ANY VSTs PARAMETER (if exposed) and crossmodulation (as in "LFO automating another LFO")
Really? What is the significant difference with FL's which have been there for decades?...

How do you do any of the things in those videos in FL?

https://youtu.be/WbJKjwwEIGk

I'm not saying you can't, just genuinely curious because I've searched the manual and couldn't find similar concepts. Sure, FL is very capable - more than Bitwig, I'd say - when it comes to automating things, but modulation is a whole different story.

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:23 am

antic604 wrote:
tooneba wrote:
tapiodmitriyevich wrote:Why is Bitwig the only DAW, which offers LFO/Envelope/SoMuchMoreSources based automation of ANY VSTs PARAMETER (if exposed) and crossmodulation (as in "LFO automating another LFO")
Really? What is the significant difference with FL's which have been there for decades?...
How do you do any of the things in those videos in FL?

https://youtu.be/WbJKjwwEIGk

I'm not saying you can't, just genuinely curious because I've searched the manual and couldn't find similar concepts. Sure, FL is very capable - more than Bitwig, I'd say - when it comes to automating things, but modulation is a whole different story.

FL has controllers like lfo, envelopes, CC value sender etc for decades. They are globally accessible in project. In short those tools are existing for same purpose as far as the video explained.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:58 am

tapiodmitriyevich wrote:Why is Bitwig the only DAW, which offers LFO/Envelope/SoMuchMoreSources based automation of ANY VSTs PARAMETER (if exposed) and crossmodulation (as in "LFO automating another LFO")

Its been possible to do this kind of stuff in Bidule for well over a decade. Bidule will even let you go the other way; bind a VST parameter to control a modulator's parameter, or even a parameter of completely different VST. Or take two VST parameters from two different VST plugins, subtract the value of one from the other and then use that to drive some parameter on ... anything.

And if tempo syncing is your thing, you can even run multiple independent tempo generators simultaneously and sync different plugins to different tempos.

And although Bidule isnt a regular linear DAW, it also runs as a plugin so you can use it to do all this inside just about any DAW that is.

tapiodmitriyevich · Post by **tapiodmitriyevich** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:26 am

I don't know what FL is capable of (I remember the formula controller), but I guess it is about workflow. As for Bidule, yeah, I have no doubt it is capable of many things. I'm not ready for that more... demanding... concept, not currently.

I'd say the whole bottom module part of Bitwig is a sound design heaven. It's intuitive. You can have so many useful modulators which work in a tree structure and can be used in an inheritance (tree structure) kind of way. Scope is a thing there... It has that context sensitive inspector with assignments to the left... good stuff. Dream come true for me!

This is very insightful and more about the general concept in depth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9oXjl259zc

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:34 am

whyterabbyt wrote:
tapiodmitriyevich wrote:Why is Bitwig the only DAW, which offers LFO/Envelope/SoMuchMoreSources based automation of ANY VSTs PARAMETER (if exposed) and crossmodulation (as in "LFO automating another LFO")
Its been possible to do this kind of stuff in Bidule for well over a decade. Bidule will even let you go the other way; bind a VST parameter to control a modulator's parameter, or even a parameter of completely different VST. Or take two VST parameters from two different VST plugins, subtract the value of one from the other and then use that to drive some parameter on ... anything.

And if tempo syncing is your thing, you can even run multiple independent tempo generators simultaneously and sync different plugins to different tempos.

And although Bidule isnt a regular linear DAW, it also runs as a plugin so you can use it to do all this inside just about any DAW that is.

Ahh, but, bidule is a bit awkward to work with. Don't get me wrong, I'm trying to make it a thing, but I'm new to it and there are a lot of annoyances.

What are the two outputs coming from the Transport To DINSync module or whatever it's called? Are they clock and reset? That's what I'd expect, but it's not in the manual anywhere that I can find. How do you monitor/meter that output so that you can visualize what it's doing? Doesn't work with the level meter?

I'm asking seriously since you seem to know it, I really like the idea of it being a stable cross daw modular host that supports feedback and it seems relatively stable, but I am finding some frustration with it.

tapiodmitriyevich · Post by **tapiodmitriyevich** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:44 am

Least I can say is: Studio One users are the last people on earth doing that kind of things, because that DAW is simply not made for it. You can control VST parameters with another VST via midi cc in a rather unintuitive way (and the target hopefully has midi learn) but it's not comparable to what is Bitwig is capable of. Plus, in Studio One, alongside midi cc I tend to see crashes on a regular basis. May be just me.

whyterabbyt wrote:Bidule will even let you go the other way; bind a VST parameter to control a modulator's parameter, or even a parameter of completely different VST

Great stuff, I was thinking that Bitwig needs the other direction ("read values from targets") as well, plus even more maths and a formula parser...

tapiodmitriyevich · Post by **tapiodmitriyevich** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:49 am

I'm still struggling with the TERMINOLOGY. What is the correct term?

1. On the one side we have hand drawn AUTOMATION. People say "automation" and mean "drawing automation lanes" mostly. The old concept, has worked like this for 10000 years. Things that will never change, at least not in Cubase, I mean... Steinberg... innovation... *cough*

2. So now if we use LFOs etc. ("Modulators" in Bitwig) for moving knobs and sliders - is that now "AUTO AUTOMATION"?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:48 am

tapiodmitriyevich wrote:I'm still struggling with the TERMINOLOGY. What is the correct term?

1. On the one side we have hand drawn AUTOMATION. People say "automation" and mean "drawing automation lanes" mostly. The old concept, has worked like this for 10000 years. Things that will never change, at least not in Cubase, I mean... Steinberg... innovation... *cough*
2. So now if we use LFOs etc. ("Modulators" in Bitwig) for moving knobs and sliders - is that now "AUTO AUTOMATION"?

yeah... Auto Automation... heh

though it is more than that as well... because the modulators in Bitwig can be per voice for Bitwig Instruments... which you cannot do with Automation

I'm hoping that the per voice modulators will eventually work with VpC VST synths as well...

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:19 am

^^^ automation is absolute (base value), modulation is relative (base value +-/* modulation value)

Bitwig can do modulation with modulators and additive/multiplicative curves, red(A) one is standard absolute automation curve, the other two ones are relative ones(+,x) modulators do the same just they are not curve based ones

for ex. Math modulator (add/mul modulators of the last device) do the same as can be seen on the picture above just it's working with other modulators (with the two other LFO modulators as sources)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaIcFBqKgl8
watch the dot on the last device, modulators are always working relative way (the base values remain unchanged or they are still can be changed with curves

)

mholloway · Post by **mholloway** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:55 am

tapiodmitriyevich wrote:I'm still struggling with the TERMINOLOGY. What is the correct term?

1. On the one side we have hand drawn AUTOMATION. People say "automation" and mean "drawing automation lanes" mostly. The old concept, has worked like this for 10000 years. Things that will never change, at least not in Cubase, I mean... Steinberg... innovation... *cough*
2. So now if we use LFOs etc. ("Modulators" in Bitwig) for moving knobs and sliders - is that now "AUTO AUTOMATION"?

You’re missing the key difference: Automation is always tied directly to the timeline. That’s where it exists, that’s where it’s controlled, etc.

Modulation is free of the timeline / arrangement. It exists between devices, as you play or as they playback, and it’s not recorded to the timeline, in other words, It’s ocurring actively between devices, as programmed by the user on those devices, not as values mapped to envelopes on the timeline.

why are live and bigwig the only DAWS to have clip launchers ?