The biggest mixing secret you've always wondered

[perpetual3]

Not everyone over 41 has such bad eyesight man.

Aye but sarcasm gets much worse.

What was sarcastic about his comment?

EDIT: I take it back, it’s not my eyesight just my reading comprehension.

[dark water]

^^ actually it wasn't a joke or sarcasm.
I am 40 (41 next week), I have declining eyesight and I was interested to learn how other producers in this highly computerized environment protect their eyes.

<EDITED as the OP had nothing to do with the issue involving two other KVR members here >

[mitchiemasha]

^^ actually it wasn't a joke or sarcasm.

Apologies... It was me who reacted not the OP. I took it as a a dig (especially due to the post before yours after mine) to the well known declining ears when i gave a visual tip, which your reply was actually quite funny at being, although now we realise unintended.

I don't share much but I seriously recommend what I suggested. Spend a week or 2 observing the waveform, so many mixing decisions will now come with a better understanding. Like why a low cut on a group might make the overall mix sound tighter, how the choice of 25hz or 35hz makes a huge difference. How a low cut somewhere in the chain after compression can now make a transient many DB louder.

It will reveal many secrets of sound to the person observing.

Try it... apply a master limiter, bring everything to 0, apply a low cut, apply another limiter. Now you'll have about 3db of gain reduction... What's this? does the low cut add 3db? if so where? If that's the case everyone saying a low cut makes more room for maximising is wrong, as it magics up an extra 3db. Your first assumption might be it's around the phase shift or the spike, resonance of the cut off but no! observing VS wave display will show you exactly what it is and how those people aren't wrong. Transients in the mix will have changed height relative to the shift in phase of the LC. If that transient is the kick, one can dial the exact frequency of the low cut to get the bass frequencies to perfectly align, each one triggers on crossing for maximum punch, SUPER TIGHT. In other words you want the phase shift (or not) to achieve that tightness.

(the limiter thing is purely as an exercise)

It's hard to word but easy to observe. For those struggling with the low cut or not to cut, it's huge. One doesn't have to keep using it, it's to unlock that door!

[beatflux]

It will reveal many secrets of sound to the person observing.

Try it... apply a master limiter, bring everything to 0, apply a low cut, apply another limiter. Now you'll have about 3db of gain reduction... What's this? does the low cut add 3db? if so where? If that's the case everyone saying a low cut makes more room for maximising is wrong, as it magics up an extra 3db. Your first assumption might be it's around the phase shift or the spike, resonance of the cut off but no! observing VS wave display will show you exactly what it is and how those people aren't wrong. Transients in the mix will have changed height relative to the shift in phase of the LC. If that transient is the kick, one can dial the exact frequency of the low cut to get the bass frequencies to perfectly align, each one triggers on crossing for maximum punch, SUPER TIGHT. In other words you want the phase shift (or not) to achieve that tightness.

(the limiter thing is purely as an exercise)

It's hard to word but easy to observe. For those struggling with the low cut or not to cut, it's huge. One doesn't have to keep using it, it's to unlock that door!

I tried this and I did not really notice a big difference. Maybe 1 db difference at best while high passing the master. I use a lot of premade stuff so its probably already EQed to a certain extent, maybe this applies to Rock like genres with recorded elements.

[mitchiemasha]

Maybe 1 db difference at best while high passing the master.

I'm going to have to make a video. Everyone I've mentioned this too gets confused, apart from those I've shown. It's not genre specific. It depends on the transients in the track and the frequency of the low cut.

Here's why...
Low cut shifts the phase of the waveform.
Any transients that sum with that waveform will now have a different height.
Some will be higher some will be lower.
Any sound that had it own compression controlling it's maximum peak can now be many db higher.

I guess it would also depend on how bass heavy the track is. Meaning how much a few ms shift in that low sine wave will now boost up a following transient. If your low end is tiny, the boost will be minimal.

Place VOLUME SHAPER on the master buss, set to 1/4, enlarge, purely as a visual tool, as you slide the lowcut higher/lower you will see the bass tail shifting, forward/backward and how the other transients (staying still) will shift up and down, due to the low cut. You can also use this to get Cycle accurate results, super tight low end, tune your low cut so the next transient isn't being excited by the tail of the last. The kicks, snares, all trigger from crossing, peaking to max.

Which also has me wondering if certain bass notes suit certain bpms, due to how the other elements would fit perfectly within the pockets. But this has nothing to do with actual music and more to do with acoustic science.

[mitchiemasha]

The main point of the limiter exercise is to show that the low cut eats up headroom.

Master/Stereobuss insert chain

Limiter 1
Bring level up so just kissing.
Set output to -0.1db.

EQ 1
Input should read -0.1db
Apply low cut, EQ input is now clipping.

Limiter 2
Is now doing more work than it would of been

This wouldn't be a normal approach, it's purely an exercise to show that simply blindly (but in sound) applying a low cut on the master buss, removing the low end, doesn't magic up more room, less compression for max volume, as many youtube videos suggest. There's a lot more to it that these so called gurus seem to be overlooking and never mention. Which I do explain above in another post.

The first limiter is purely to set the level so we have a solid confirmed bench mark to work from.

They tell you an important technique but don't explain the secret. The secret isn't a secret, it's just the technique means nothing to you until we understand the waveform and how the technique relates to it. That's what my babble on SECRETS is. It is a secret until the understanding reveals itself to you, the words mean nothing, even if you understand the word and the letters that make it.

[Benedict]

I would like to see this properly explained. A video with appropriate metering & visualizations would definitely help.

High Passing "muck) in the super lows definitely helps clarify a mix and that alone gives the feeling of greater clarity & punch. As for where that 3db rule comes from? It sounds to me like a made-up statistic to me but happy to know more...

[mitchiemasha]

I would like to see this properly explained.

High pass muck is essential. It's not a 3db rule, that's just how much I was hitting when i noticed it, Meters clipping that previously weren't. It's not a statistic.

On the flip...
If you have troublesome transients in your mix that are poking up high due to badly aligned low end, imagine a snare being hit or a clap, that just happens to happen over the highest part of a low cycle (No sidechain duking), this transient is going to get squished to death, or need to be turned down. Applying the low cut will shift the phase of the low end, getting the exact right low cut, will place these transients "in the pocket", from crossing, not the peak of other low elements in the mix, now they wont be putting too much work on the limiting. Which the release of ruins the smoothness to your sub bass.

If those transients are already in the pocket, the LC is going to shift them out.

Now imagine the transient of this clap being on the highest part of the low cycle, then the next time not, this transient is going to get squished to death 1 time, then not the next. In this instance the shift in low end won't fix the issue, as one reduces, the other increases. There's a chance that the low end cycles, like that of a kick, change size with each cycle, which can change all that.

Again... all this explodes in your mind if you spend a week with VS on the masterbuss purely as a visual tool.

I wish I could magic up a quick video.

[Benedict]

I get your point on the -3db thing.

If I could understand it, I could make the video as this is a thing I do (rendering one about Reverb as I tryper this).

Sadly tho either your English is not great or you are not using common "proper terms". What is:
- badly aligned low end?
- highest part of the low cycle (what is a "low cycle" that it has high & low parts)?
- transients "in the pocket"?

Are you talking about all music or is this a thing that only appears relevant to certain people, perhaps Rap & EDM? Not that sound behaves any differently for their sine waves compared to mine but I note many of them seem to believe they do.

My only guess is that you are talking about incidental phase alignments that in one case can see two 'loud bits' align to create a really LOUD BIT or in another case cancel each other out making a sound disappear for a moment.

If so then there is a sound choice and/or mix issue (or two) to be addressed. While EQ is definitely a contender to massage that phase relationship, it is just as likely to pop up somewhere else so change the sound/s or look at compression at one or both sounds and if you really need them that way - bus compress/limit with a Saturation unit to 'soak' up the issue when it happens (as it does with alarming regularity when using phasers on string pads).

[ramseysounds]

Put Hiku on your master buss. It just brings the track to life. Transforms a dark mix into something that shines and sparkles. IMO.

[deep'n'dark]

Tehke tööd kõik



Mati ja peenis!

[vurt]

Tehke tööd kõik



Mati ja peenis!

[mitchiemasha]

Sadly tho either your English is not great or you are not using common "proper terms". What is:
- badly aligned low end?
- highest part of the low cycle (what is a "low cycle" that it has high & low parts)?
- transients "in the pocket"?

Exactly. My words mean nothing! This is exactly what my "Secret" babble is trying to explain. But, my words mean exactly what they say. When one observes it, they will fully understand and the words make perfect sense.

Badly aligned Low end = The low frequencies in the mix are aligned in such a way that they are causing other transients to vary dramatically in their peak volume than they would be without the low end. These transients I refer to are being excited. They will smash into master limiting and then not. (Edit: Not quite the same as phase alignment issues of similar frequency that you point to).

Highest part of the Low cycle (is 2)
1. Low Cycle = 1 oscillation of a low frequency waveform
2. Highest part = This would be the highest part of that low frequency, the most voltage, the further most forward the speaker position.

"in the pocket" = I put it in "." as it's not my term, it's a term I've heard a lot.

Transients in the pocket = Avoiding the low end exciting the transients, as in the low end is aligned as such so that the transients of other sounds are more controlled.

Controlled = Not at drastically different peak volumes through out when summed in a mix.

Transient = (everyone should know this at this level) Initial attack of the sound.

and 1 you didn't ask... but!

Crossing = the part in which the waveform crosses +/-, where the speaker would be at it's neutral position.


Imagine this as an extreme. The speaker is already fully forward due to an intense low frequency cycle, now a snare drum tries to snap. There's no room for the forward movement of the speaker, only back. If the speaker is at "crossing", it has all the movement it needs. If we have loads of headroom that low end isn't an issue, the snare will sit on top of the sinewave like cycle of the low end. Once we go for the big squish however, that's were the issue starts. We won't be able to get the track as loud, the parts "badly aligned" will result in horrible artefacts from overworking the limiter. Turn it down, now the other part is reducing max volume potential.

The point of VS is we begin to understand it from the perspective of the moving speaker.

Edit: I think I've got it now, it might take a few more edits... lol!

[mitchiemasha]

and, all it can take is a few ms shift in low end for something to now have all the room it needs. VS will reveal this to you. The actual frequency chose for the LC can be paramount. The difference can change everything.

[mitchiemasha]

I guess what I'm trying to portray is...

A true "secret" is 1 that you can be told but you still don't know it.

It's only in the act of exploring, experiencing that secret will it reveal itself to you. Then it doesn't matter what words you use, as long as they're loosely related, those who've experienced it will know exactly what you mean. What people refer to as being on the same page or wavelength.

Edit
Disclaimer: I don't claim to know the answer to any of the secrets, only the observations I've made and retested. It's up to the other person to unravel the mess I've shared.