I see a lot, most, tutorials on YouTube and elsewhere who do almost all of their mixing as the person is working on the arrangement. EQ, compression, sidechain, etc. This is how I have always done it. Some even mix right into their final mastering chain.
On the other hand, I saw a tutorial on Sonic Academy where the guy did all his arrangement and creative work first, bounced every track down to stems, opened a new project and did his mixing from there. Then he bounced down his 2 track, opened a yet another new project and did his mastering there.
I'd like to discuss this, how do you manage this all when you produce? Pros and cons of either method? The later method obviously seems more time and resource intensive, but is that the difference between an amateur and a professional?
Mix while you arrange, or mix after?
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1403 posts since 30 Mar, 2014
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- KVRAF
- 1858 posts since 26 Nov, 2018
My attitude about this is fish. Why do I say that?
Because neither way is wrong. But optimally, it is best to concentrate on your recording first and then the mixing as a secondary component. BTW, I struggle with this because my ears tell me "oh man, you need to eq this" and then I get caught up in that vs. finishing the damn thing
It's up to you but I'd think for someone learning this that they should be treated as two different entities if time is of importance.
Because neither way is wrong. But optimally, it is best to concentrate on your recording first and then the mixing as a secondary component. BTW, I struggle with this because my ears tell me "oh man, you need to eq this" and then I get caught up in that vs. finishing the damn thing
It's up to you but I'd think for someone learning this that they should be treated as two different entities if time is of importance.
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- KVRAF
- 3390 posts since 5 Mar, 2004 from Gold Coast Australia
Either is doable but ask yourself if you don't end up like Reggie and focusing on one thing when your task is really another?
If you should be focusing on Story (notes, melody, countermelody, arrangement) but all you do is color in the gaps in the letters, are you actually making music or just pointlessly shaped noise? I hear a lot of the latter as no matter how great the mix if the song is not there it is pointless. A great song will survive a poor mix but not so much the other way around.
I do a bit of both but I definitely don't think about having a finished Mix, let alone Mastering, as I am still building my piece. I don't start new projects myself for each phase but I do know that Mix & Master are two separate phases after the piece is working properly.
If you should be focusing on Story (notes, melody, countermelody, arrangement) but all you do is color in the gaps in the letters, are you actually making music or just pointlessly shaped noise? I hear a lot of the latter as no matter how great the mix if the song is not there it is pointless. A great song will survive a poor mix but not so much the other way around.
I do a bit of both but I definitely don't think about having a finished Mix, let alone Mastering, as I am still building my piece. I don't start new projects myself for each phase but I do know that Mix & Master are two separate phases after the piece is working properly.
Benedict Roff-Marsh
http://www.benedictroffmarsh.com
http://www.benedictroffmarsh.com
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el-bo (formerly ebow) el-bo (formerly ebow) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=208007 - KVRAF
- 16369 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away
Both!
While sound-designing, composing and arranging I think it's good practice to start to carve sounds to allow new, added instruments to be able to find their place. Otherwise, by the time you have drums, bass etc. all muddying up the bottom end, you're already going to start having issues when adding full-spectrum pads, guitars et al.
Once the piece has been fully recorded, it might be almost there. Then just reset to unity, sort out the gain structure, and start balancing levels, tweaking, and adding mix effects for the purpose of 'gluing'/homogenising the sound.
...is one way of doing it
While sound-designing, composing and arranging I think it's good practice to start to carve sounds to allow new, added instruments to be able to find their place. Otherwise, by the time you have drums, bass etc. all muddying up the bottom end, you're already going to start having issues when adding full-spectrum pads, guitars et al.
Once the piece has been fully recorded, it might be almost there. Then just reset to unity, sort out the gain structure, and start balancing levels, tweaking, and adding mix effects for the purpose of 'gluing'/homogenising the sound.
...is one way of doing it
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- KVRAF
- 5051 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia
Both. I record better if I am recording to a somewhat mixed sound. But there will always be a need to mix properly after tracking is complete.
Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1403 posts since 30 Mar, 2014
This is my current practice. Rough out everything, keep it moving, know that I need to STOP adding stuff and call it done. Then mix.el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:54 am Once the piece has been fully recorded, it might be almost there. Then just reset to unity, sort out the gain structure, and start balancing levels, tweaking, and adding mix effects for the purpose of 'gluing'/homogenising the sound.
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- KVRAF
- 2989 posts since 5 Nov, 2014
Guess it's highly personal, I'm doing whatever I feel at the moment, but one thing is sure I'm really not into mixing bounced stems, I'm not hired mixing engineer, I can revisit the sources and fix the mix there, fix the automation and automate whatever whenever, that's for me like ultimate perk of it, of course, if system resources allow me too, but that's something I strive for... also work with my "mastering" chain since the early stages (it's low latency and resource one, so I really have no issues with it), but not obsessing about having polished mix until the end, some stuff I leave for later, some I do immediately, really depends on the situation.
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- KVRian
- 643 posts since 17 Aug, 2015 from Finland
After arranging for me. With extremely rare exceptions.
My solo projects:
Hekkräiser (experimental) | MFG38 (electronic/soundtrack) | The Santtu Pesonen Project (metal/prog)
Hekkräiser (experimental) | MFG38 (electronic/soundtrack) | The Santtu Pesonen Project (metal/prog)
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 15 Jun, 2019
While i'm strictly arranging, I might throw a few plugins on to add some excitement to the parts that I'm wanting to hear, and eq take out some harsh frequencies on cymbals and guitars. But once it's time to commit to all the arrangements and edits, I'll take off all of the vsts, and bounce the audio and midi into an entirely new project. Usually I will copy over the same eq curves to save some time.
I feel like mixing a little while arranging builds some hype internally, and may lead to more creative parts.
Edit: To expand, I master on the master bus in the project with all the bounced wavs, but while im arranging on the low latency "recording" project, I might throw throw L1 on when im not making mixing decisions to get things a little closer to how they would sound when finished. And to be lazy when I dont wana touch the volume knob. Lol
I feel like mixing a little while arranging builds some hype internally, and may lead to more creative parts.
Edit: To expand, I master on the master bus in the project with all the bounced wavs, but while im arranging on the low latency "recording" project, I might throw throw L1 on when im not making mixing decisions to get things a little closer to how they would sound when finished. And to be lazy when I dont wana touch the volume knob. Lol
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- KVRist
- 490 posts since 3 Feb, 2018
Both. But the answers are gonna vary according to what kind of music people are making. My abstract sound fuckery versus someone that writes actual songs. For me it's impossible to say where my sound design ends and mixing starts.
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- KVRAF
- 4590 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw
Mix all the time!
- Mix at sound design to make sure it just sounds good and intruments are consitent / don't mask each other
- Mix at arrangement stage - make transitions, fadeouts and overall flow of a track
- Mix at mixing stage to make sure the full track is balanced, loud and clear
Seriously I spend most of time at mixing and that's what can make or break the track.
- Mix at sound design to make sure it just sounds good and intruments are consitent / don't mask each other
- Mix at arrangement stage - make transitions, fadeouts and overall flow of a track
- Mix at mixing stage to make sure the full track is balanced, loud and clear
Seriously I spend most of time at mixing and that's what can make or break the track.
Blog ------------- YouTube channel
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
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- KVRist
- 451 posts since 2 Sep, 2012
There’s some overlap. When recording live instruments I’m thinking of mixing all the time, adjusting the mic position or how I’m playing. If I don’t, it may not turn out how I want. I also sometimes like to make some eq adjustments to inspire me more as I go along, or add some reverb. If it’s sounding good then it’s more enjoyable and I’m more motivated.
I generally scrap it all when I start to mix though, and I don’t put too much time into mixing while tracking, just as needed to help the vibe, not enough to distract me. So really, I mix after, with thoughtful consideration of the mix process while tracking/producing.
I generally scrap it all when I start to mix though, and I don’t put too much time into mixing while tracking, just as needed to help the vibe, not enough to distract me. So really, I mix after, with thoughtful consideration of the mix process while tracking/producing.
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- KVRAF
- 1742 posts since 9 Jul, 2014 from UK
I always used to mix as I went. Now I write, record then mix. I think my tracks sound much better. IMO.
I wonder what happens if I press this button...
