The approach to writing this kind of music.

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Helo everyone. I want to know what is the approach to writing music like this. I understand how to produce music which based on melodies or full vocal song, but producing this kind of music is still incomprehensible for me. I mean techno, tribal, minimal etc. Is it worth starting from rhytm (bass, drums) or better to find some vocal samples or simple melodies? If you can share your thougts maybe it will help me to undestand. Thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7htGe11mUE4

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Hello,
For me, the best advice would be not to ask for it.
Start by getting some elements and see what you can do. Go ahead and do it. Do as you usually do.
You're the one who knows how you work. We can't decide for you.

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Only they would know how they did it.

But the beat could have possibly begun as just a chance occurrence, like if they were using controls to manipulate how an existing beat generates (triggers and filters) another beat. Not to say that it would sound derivative at all.

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The truth is that there are no rules - but here is a suggestion: Since this track is so rhythm-based, it makes sense if you start with rhythm, too. Instead of developing melody and harmony like in a traditional songwriting manner, see how you can develop and combine rhythms to create an engaging track. Then add harmonic and melodic elements to keep it interesting.

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This kind of music is basically all one loop, a few bars long, with lots and lots of layers. You bring layers in and out over time l, triggering them, muting them, fading them, and bringing effects in and out. That’s really all there is to it.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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Pretty much what was said above. Not easy to pull off, but that's how you do this stuff. Make a 4 bar to 8 bar loop primarily focusing on drums and bass with one or more slightly melodic elements that are repeating and then just build the whole track like that.

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Thank you, guys. I just have a classical music education, and used to rely on harmony and melody. But now I try myself in this music direction, and regarding your advice, I think this is the right approach to start from the rhytm if you obviously do not have some kind of melodic idea before you sit down and write something in this genre. Now I try to start from the rhythm and only then create looped melodic structures. But in fact it is more difficult than it seems at first sight.

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Honestly, a great way to get into learning a new style genre is just to transcribe. I haven't found anything more helpful. I try to pick a few songs from a style, then transcribe 1 element (just drums, just a melody, just a chord progression etc..) from each. Compare and you should start to see some commonalities and patterns emerge.

For something like the track above, try to listen through and just identify the different layers that are playing and what their function is (i.e. mostly based around a hand percussion loop, there's a vocal one-shot that changes A B A C).

You can also transcribe just form - how many bars before each new loop? Are there several drum pattern variations or just one?

I think it's helpful to just focus on one element when transcribing, so it doesn't turn into trying to recreate the track. Once you have some elements transcribed from the style you like, try making a beat or pattern using just 1 or 2 of the elements (for example, try just making a beat around a hand percussion loop and see where it goes, or maybe try to make a beat that using a similar layering pattern). I'm very much a kinesthetic learner, so I always need to DO to understand something.

There are several different sections in this beat too, you could almost analyze it like you might analyze sonata allegro form or something along those lines.
not really a martian - not really from here. tryin to learn everything I can about how humans make music.

FL20 and Live 10

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could be helpful or not but this music comes from a studio jam session, the main drum machine pattern was playing for a whole day and meanwhile he was trying all sorts of stuff with synths and samplers, just layering one new sound at a time, removing others, until he had enough elements to arrive at the final assembly. it's "composition" is either partly or entirely explorative in nature, and really exists only because of the machines involved.

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Is this maybe in the wrong forum? I'm not sure you really have a music theory question here

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acYm wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:44 am could be helpful or not but this music comes from a studio jam session, the main drum machine pattern was playing for a whole day and meanwhile he was trying all sorts of stuff with synths and samplers, just layering one new sound at a time, removing others, until he had enough elements to arrive at the final assembly. it's "composition" is either partly or entirely explorative in nature, and really exists only because of the machines involved.
Very good idea, really!
Forgotten wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:57 pm Is this maybe in the wrong forum? I'm not sure you really have a music theory question here
I couldn't find an appropriate section so I posted a topic here. If the moderators will move the topic to another section, I don't mind.

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Phaza wrote:
Forgotten wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:57 pm Is this maybe in the wrong forum? I'm not sure you really have a music theory question here
I couldn't find an appropriate section so I posted a topic here. If the moderators will move the topic to another section, I don't mind.
Looks like it's already been moved to 'Production Techniques'

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I'd say it's probably best to ignore any music theory, beyond the very basics of keeping things in tune, picking some kind of scale... and using chords, just for the sound of it.. not for any kind of structural progression. You can of course apply more complex theory later on, and basically do what you want. But we're talking minimalistic beats here so leave that out for now. See how long you can keep things interesting without any melodic or harmonic elements.. or just a simple repetitive bassline which can literally be one note.

And go all in on sound design.. while at the same time being conservative. Dance music revolves around the same simple elements that have been around for years, but they constantly get transformed and re-interpreted because of new technologies and new styles. It's a language.. so the challenge is to do something interesting and fresh within those limits. Be experimental but not to the point of unfamiliarity, if that makes sense?

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You should start with Sampling - and that is no simple task. Before you can sample a Sound you must find discover it. For the most people this means to build up a Music Library - preferable Vinyl - in the first step. For Sampling I´d recommend AKAI MPC in this case. Definitely not Kontakt or some shitty Sampler Track ;-)

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Hi Phaza

Yes, the general consensus here is right. Mostly these things start with drums and then simply build more and more layers that switch in and out. A more melodic approach can actually be a liability more often than not as most of this audience don't like melody as it detracts from their trance-like desires.

Or you can think of it this way and go back to the idea of the Ground Bass from early music (Mediaeval etc) and see how you can weave a melodic narrative around the static "pole" in the middle of everything. This is kinda what happens here in effect.

Then your detail comes from the detail in sounds that you extract by having an ear for them and then enhancing them. Overdrives are a common tool for this as they add grit and enhance the "interesting" bits of a sound easily.

:-)

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