What am I missing from this trance track (Thanks for all the feedbacks! Locking the topic)

[hhuang9611]

Edit:
Thanks for all the feedback guys!

I think the track needs some serious work. I'm gonna lock this topic and head back to work on improving my skill.

I really appreciate all the feedback!

[wagtunes]

Well, I'm no expert. In fact, I just finished my own "Trance" CD that was probably far removed from traditional Trance. So I'm probably the last person who should or could be of any help here.

To me, it sounds like a typical Trance track. Definitely more conventional than what I did. So on that level, IMO, you succeeded. The mix also sounds fine to me. The only thing I notice is that the drums and bass aren't as up front as on most Trance tracks.

As far as the "generic" sound, I find a lot of Trance very generic, which is probably why my project was so unlike Trance and not well received.

FWIW, I like this. I wish it had more melody to it but I have that wish with a lot of Trance tracks so again, don't go by me.

There are a lot of people here who are really into this stuff. They will be of much more help than I've been.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Mix sounds really unbalanced and sounds like an old chip tune in that respect

[hhuang9611]

Well, I'm no expert. In fact, I just finished my own "Trance" CD that was probably far removed from traditional Trance. So I'm probably the last person who should or could be of any help here.

To me, it sounds like a typical Trance track. Definitely more conventional than what I did. So on that level, IMO, you succeeded. The mix also sounds fine to me. The only thing I notice is that the drums and bass aren't as up front as on most Trance tracks.

As far as the "generic" sound, I find a lot of Trance very generic, which is probably why my project was so unlike Trance and not well received.

FWIW, I like this. I wish it had more melody to it but I have that wish with a lot of Trance tracks so again, don't go by me.

There are a lot of people here who are really into this stuff. They will be of much more help than I've been.

Thanks wag, I'm glad you like it.

Mix sounds really unbalanced and sounds like an old chip tune in that respect

Thanks for the feedback. Could you please elaborate more about what is "unbalanced?" Like maybe too much high end or mid frequency? Also, I am wondering which part sounds like old chip tune to you? Thanks!

[MogwaiBoy]

My immediate impression on the difference between your track and the youtube clip you posted is that the commercial track is really detailed with impact booms, risers etc - things are constantly moving and it keeps the energy level high (the aim of the game). It's just seriously layered

I'm not saying you should just throw some impact boom sample packs at your track though - there's something to be said for clean minimalism. Back in the 90s when I actually got into trance, it was pretty smooth and minimalistic back then.

I like what you've done, man.

Re: balancing. Compare your track to that commercial one in an analyzer and I bet you'll see you're missing a lot of super high "air" way up. It's not just EQ boosted up high, but actually deliberately carved out through instrumentation (sawtooths) and tasteful white noise falls and risers etc.

Check out 3:00 of that youtube clip... my god, those are some serious highs.

[hhuang9611]

My immediate impression on the difference between your track and the youtube clip you posted is that the commercial track is really detailed with impact booms, risers etc - things are constantly moving and it keeps the energy level high (the aim of the game). It's just seriously layered

I'm not saying you should just throw some impact boom sample packs at your track though - there's something to be said for clean minimalism. Back in the 90s when I actually got into trance, it was pretty smooth and minimalistic back then.

I like what you've done, man.

Re: balancing. Compare your track to that commercial one in an analyzer and I bet you'll see you're missing a lot of super high "air" way up. It's not just EQ boosted up high, but actually deliberately carved out through instrumentation (sawtooths) and tasteful white noise falls and risers etc.

Check out 3:00 of that youtube clip... my god, those are some serious highs.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. I really appreciate it!

[DJ Warmonger]

Well, I'm no expert

Well, wagtunes is no expert, don't listen to him.

Some remarks:
- GAPS. Silence. Breakdown. Bridges. Even when the kick stops, dynamics doesn't change much. Just look at the waveform, it's all uniformly loud.
- Groove.
- Layers. In trance (but not only) instruments need to be introduced and then dissapear after a time. Need more stuff to run in the background.
- It's overcompressed.
- It's also poorly equalized, but that's common issue for many producers.

[hhuang9611]

Well, I'm no expert

Well, wagtunes is no expert, don't listen to him.

Some remarks:
- GAPS. Silence. Breakdown. Bridges. Even when the kick stops, dynamics doesn't change much. Just look at the waveform, it's all uniformly loud.
- Groove.
- Layers. In trance (but not only) instruments need to be introduced and then dissapear after a time. Need more stuff to run in the background.
- It's overcompressed.
- It's also poorly equalized, but that's common issue for many producers.

Thanks for the detailed comments!

Two additional response to your comment:
About overcompressing. I actually did not do much compression. I believe I only compress the lead (with GR less than 3db, ratio of 3:1) to just glue multiple layer synth together, the kick and bass for some extra punch and very slight compression on clap and hithats to tame them a little bit. On the master buss, I used a mastering compression with GR of 1 db (ratio of 1.5:1), and two limiters to increase volume with each one have GR about 1-2 db. So I was thinking that I should not overcompress. But now that you mentioned it, would you mind letting me know which aspect of the track gives the overcompress impression? Or how can I reduce this problem?

As for the poor eq. Well, since I have already got similar critics(good and useful critics that I really appreciate) twice, I am convinced that I sucked at mixing this track... So could you please tell me more about the details of my poor eq? Like what is the obvious problem? Muddy? Or instrument does not fit together? Or elements do not shine through? Sorry if I asked too many questions, but I am really curious because I personally am satisfied with the mixing. I would like to figure out what is wrong

Thanks!

[MrMagneto]

A few thoughts:

Listen really hard to the levels of the different elements in your mix and the reference track. The kick needs to be way more prominent in the mix. It's THE most important element of all. The snare/clap should be just a tiny cherry on top. If the snare doesn't fit in right, try and cut it under 400Hz and try again. Cut the hihats under 1000Hz.

Your basic bass synth layer should always be in mono. Also I'd personally add a low-cut on the bass synth around 50-60 Hz.
When you add layers on top of the bass, they should be cut under 150-250Hz.

Your synths are too dry and not really big right now. You can try and add a nice reverb and stereo/pingpong delay. Also make sure to low-cut leads around 250Hz.

Those cuts make mixing so much easier.

Also, don't be happy with a sound that sounds ok. Get the best drum samples out there, get the best synths sounds out there. You won't believe how much better your productions will sound when you start using good tools and sound material.

[hhuang9611]

A few thoughts:

Listen really hard to the levels of the different elements in your mix and the reference track. The kick needs to be way more prominent in the mix. It's THE most important element of all. The snare/clap should be just a tiny cherry on top. If the snare doesn't fit in right, try and cut it under 400Hz and try again. Cut the hihats under 1000Hz.

Your basic bass synth layer should always be in mono. Also I'd personally add a low-cut on the bass synth around 50-60 Hz.
When you add layers on top of the bass, they should be cut under 150-250Hz.

Your synths are too dry and not really big right now. You can try and add a nice reverb and stereo/pingpong delay. Also make sure to low-cut leads around 250Hz.

Those cuts make mixing so much easier.

Also, don't be happy with a sound that sounds ok. Get the best drum samples out there, get the best synths sounds out there. You won't believe how much better your productions will sound when you start using good tools and sound material.

Thank you so much! Very detailed and useful tips! I will try them out.

[DJ Warmonger]

I actually did not do much compression. I believe I only compress the lead (with GR less than 3db, ratio of 3:1

And 100% wet, right?
Well, try to make everything the other way round.

As to EQ and compression - way too much low mids give an impression of overly fat track which doesn't move at all.
Bets tip: check your reference tracks under spectrum analyzer and notice huge difference.
Izotope Tonal Balance Control was made just for that purpose.

[MrMagneto]

I actually did not do much compression. I believe I only compress the lead (with GR less than 3db, ratio of 3:1

And 100% wet, right?
Well, try to make everything the other way round.

As to EQ and compression - way too much low mids give an impression of overly fat track which doesn't move at all.
Bets tip: check your reference tracks under spectrum analyzer and notice huge difference.
Izotope Tonal Balance Control was made just for that purpose.

@Warmonger: Is this the kind of "advice" you would like to receive yourself?

[hhuang9611]

@Warmonger: Is this the kind of "advice" you would like to receive yourself?

Emm... Personally, I find his advice useful. And anybody can give me any kind of suggestions, I appreciate whoever leaves a feedback!

[Hermetech Mastering]

Needs more cowbell