Need Help With Trance Project (CD Completed)

[JoaquinAce]

Cool nice work! Making your own sounds is satisfying indeed. Don't feel you have to do it each and every time though. This stuff is very genre and taste specific. A simple sinewave kick from Bazzism or Kick 2 might sit perfectly well in a psytrance or minimal track for example, and may actually be more effective than something more tonally complex.

On the other hand if you want your kick to absolutely dominate the mix, as in the "138" trance style, or Hardstyle - you essentially need a "full range" kick which will have subs, "punch" in the 100-200hz region, "slap" in the upper mids and even some extreme top end. This Bryan Kearney track is a good example -

Nicely said. In some cases I spent most of my time on the kick since my type of tracks are so dependent on having a kick that hits you in the chest. You just get this feeling when it’s finally right and it sits perfectly in the mix. And then the reverse bass that need to follow it to give it that ‘package deal’ effect. I use most of the time Metrum to put it together but in some cases I’ll have something like Big Kick on a separate channel to give it additional oomph during the drop.

[andymcbain]

Nicely said. In some cases I spent most of my time on the kick since my type of tracks are so dependent on having a kick that hits you in the chest. You just get this feeling when it’s finally right and it sits perfectly in the mix. And then the reverse bass that need to follow it to give it that ‘package deal’ effect. I use most of the time Metrum to put it together but in some cases I’ll have something like Big Kick on a separate channel to give it additional oomph during the drop.

Metrum is really quite underrated in my opinion - I wish they'd update it to make the synthesis tool a bit more up to date and the interface a bit less fiddly! Browsing through those sample layers (especially with a spectrum analyzer in view) really gives you an insight into how the various layers gel together.

I keep processing to a minimum after that but have taken to using Oeksound "Spiff" to add 3dB or so to the 100-200hz region - it does a super clean boost and adds loads of punch Worth a try...

[andymcbain]

I see you're making Hard Trance by the way!!! Nice to see the genre being kept alive. Got numerous old tracks on vinyl... and used to play stuff like Wragg and Log:One a lot

[wagtunes]

I see you're making Hard Trance by the way!!! Nice to see the genre being kept alive. Got numerous old tracks on vinyl... and used to play stuff like Wragg and Log:One a lot

Not sure where you got that impression. What I said was that I really loved that Hard Trance track but haven't really decided yet which direction I'm going.

Most likely, this project is going to be sort of a mutt. Ultimately, it's going to be completely me for better or worse. Will there be some hard trance elements on some of the tracks? Most likely yes, and maybe even one track devoted completely to the genre. But right now, I'm having enough trouble just getting down some of these basics. I'm closing in on 150 tracks listened to and still feel like I haven't scratched the surface. There is so much out there.

What I'm starting to do right now is piecing together something as I listen and as I learn new techniques. It's ultimately going to end up as the first track.

FYI, the name of the CD is going to titled "The Wyzyrd Of Trance" and is going to be a concept album based off the movie "The Wizard Of Oz" complete with sample references and everything. I'm working one week on track 1 and I'm about a minute into the song. At this rate, it'll take me about 2 months to complete it. Stretch that into an 8 song album and we're looking at possibly a year to a year and a half to finish it if I'm going to do it right.

The automation part right now for some of these tracks is killing me. Getting every level just right at every transition point in the song is a nightmare with all the tracks I have already. And the vocals are only complicating things because then I have to bring the instrumental tracks down so they can be heard over them, especially when coming in from some of the louder sections. Cubase doesn't make this easy because, for whatever reason, there is no dead drop volume drop possible through automation unless you try to do it in real time and my reflexes aren't that good. So I have to use the ramp feature and ramp down into the drop. Not ideal as there is a very slight dip in volume just a split second before I want to actually dip the volume. Editing the automation line in Cubase is a royal PITA.

So the hardest part for me will really have little to do with the music but getting around all the technical limitations of my DAW, of the fact that I'm just not that adept in making the most of my software. It's not like I went to school for this stuff. So, in short, I'm doing the best I can.

It might be a long while before anybody gets to hear anything. Most likely long after this thread is forgotten about.

[vurt]

we will never forget!


nice title. the way of the wyrd is always going to attract me

[wagtunes]

we will never forget!


nice title. the way of the wyrd is always going to attract me

I'm not so sure how "weird" this project is going to be. As Trance itself goes, it's a weird genre in its own right. It's certainly not your typical pop or rock fluff. And some of it is really out there.

Only time will tell.

[garryknight]

The automation part right now for some of these tracks is killing me. Getting every level just right at every transition point in the song is a nightmare with all the tracks I have already. And the vocals are only complicating things because then I have to bring the instrumental tracks down so they can be heard over them, especially when coming in from some of the louder sections.

I wouldn't automate the levels on the instrument tracks, if I were you. It could end up taking you 4 years! Better to sidechain the instruments (apart from bass and percussion) from the vocals, and instead of a compressor, I'd use a dynamic EQ, maybe something like TDR Nova or Neutron. Find the frequency range of the vocals and duck that range in the instruments. That way the vocals will be clear and it won't (or shouldn't, if you get it right) sound like the instruments are ducking.

[JoaquinAce]

I see you're making Hard Trance by the way!!! Nice to see the genre being kept alive. Got numerous old tracks on vinyl... and used to play stuff like Wragg and Log:One a lot

Not sure where you got that impression. What I said was that I really loved that Hard Trance track but haven't really decided yet which direction I'm going.

I think this was meant as a reply to me

[wagtunes]

I see you're making Hard Trance by the way!!! Nice to see the genre being kept alive. Got numerous old tracks on vinyl... and used to play stuff like Wragg and Log:One a lot

Not sure where you got that impression. What I said was that I really loved that Hard Trance track but haven't really decided yet which direction I'm going.

I think this was meant as a reply to me

Hard to tell as there was no direct quote. Okay, that makes sense.

[wagtunes]

The automation part right now for some of these tracks is killing me. Getting every level just right at every transition point in the song is a nightmare with all the tracks I have already. And the vocals are only complicating things because then I have to bring the instrumental tracks down so they can be heard over them, especially when coming in from some of the louder sections.

I wouldn't automate the levels on the instrument tracks, if I were you. It could end up taking you 4 years! Better to sidechain the instruments (apart from bass and percussion) from the vocals, and instead of a compressor, I'd use a dynamic EQ, maybe something like TDR Nova or Neutron. Find the frequency range of the vocals and duck that range in the instruments. That way the vocals will be clear and it won't (or shouldn't, if you get it right) sound like the instruments are ducking.

Okay, I have Neutron and I understand what you're saying but I have no idea how to do what you're telling me to do. I've just about figured out how to sidechain one track to another in its entirety, but to do it on just a particular frequency range?

Not a clue.

[wagtunes]

Okay, I am totally stuck. I've searched for videos, forum posts and even through the Cubase manual. I have no idea how to route the vocals externally to send them to the Neutron Dynamic EQ.

I have the EQ setup according to the videos. I've pulled up EXT Full. But all the videos I've found that show how to create a Return are for other DAWs besides Cubase 7. I can't find one video that shows this for Cubase 7.

So when I get to the part where I want the vocals to duck the section of the instruments at the EQ point where there is masking, nothing happens. There is no signal coming into the sidechain.

So, does anybody know how to setup a return in Cubase 7? Otherwise, I'm just going to go back to my original plan and and drop the instruments audio when the vocals come in. Either that, or just have the section of EQ on all the time. It doesn't make a huge difference in the sound if I do.

[wagtunes]

Here's the video I watched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7IyDRU1A-g&t=24s

Look around 20 seconds where he says to create a return track. You will note, if you freeze the video that the options for creating tracks are...

Insert Audio Track
Insert MIDI Track
Insert Return Track

Well, if I go to Cubase to the Insert Menu, I have these options...

Add Track Audio
Add Track Instrument
Add Track MIDI

I have no Add Track Return option in Cubase. He says you can do this in any DAW. Well, if so, it's obviously different in Cubase.

Can anybody help me?

[wagtunes]

Never mind. I decided to try to sidechain it to the EQ through the FX Sends. It works but now I have to figure out the settings so that the drop out isn't so drastic.

[andymcbain]

Hard to tell as there was no direct quote. Okay, that makes sense.

Yes, apologies for the confusion!

[andymcbain]

Never mind. I decided to try to sidechain it to the EQ through the FX Sends. It works but now I have to figure out the settings so that the drop out isn't so drastic.

Literally a dB or two should be all you need, and adjust the release so there's no obvious "pumping"

Trackspacer is my favourite tool for this job. Really quick and easy, and effective.