KVR Audio

mjudge55 · Post by **mjudge55** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:05 pm

Sorry if this is covered elsewhere and I just couldn't find it:

Yesterday I used the "loopback" feature of my audio interface to sample something off Youtube. I forgot to turn off monitoring in Ableton and a feedback loop happened and it really hurt my ears. Thankfully no damage to those or my headphones, but...

What do you do in you DAW as a safeguard against something like this? I thought about using a limiter but I don't want to introduce any latency. I also want a solution that won't tax the CPU much. What about a (soft?) clipper on the master?

Note I'm not asking about using a clipper/limiter to increase loudness or as a mix/mastering technique. This is purely about protecting my ears and speakers.

Thanks,

Matt

pandashake · Post by **pandashake** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:15 pm

Mute-o-matic might be able to help you out?

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:23 pm

Turn your speakers down.
Seriously, if your speakers are loud enough to hurt your ears when feedback or full scale noise occurs, it's a gain staging issue. If you set your speakers so that the loudest they can get, is still below your pain threshold, then you won't need to worry about loud spikes. You can then use your DAW or a speaker control box to adjust the signal level which feeds your speakers

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:25 pm

That's literally what a limiter is for. If you don't have the volume cranked on the limiter, it's not going to make it louder, only prevent peaks from going past a certain point.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:32 pm

Yeah. Keep the volume down, especially when experimenting with audio. There is a free plugin that cuts the audio off if it exceeds a certain level, but I can't remember wtf its called ... will check later on.

mjudge55 · Post by **mjudge55** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:35 pm

Hey justin3am, I think my gain staging is good -- I keep all tracks peaking at -6db tops and around -18dbfs. My normal listening level I think is pretty reasonable, but when the feedback ran away it did get pretty loud. Maybe it was more of a shock than something that would actually damage my ears or speakers, but still, I don't want that happening.

djanthony, I do get that that's what limiters are for. I want to avoid any latency though -- any suggestions there?

Unaspected · Post by **Unaspected** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:56 pm

I was trained to meter before monitoring. So if I'm about to do something that could result in a sudden burst or feedback, then I'll always do so with no gain and meter what is happening before I turn my monitors up.

Otherwise, as justin3am suggested, gain staging should be addressed (turn your speakers down and the feed to them up). A limiter or something to cut the signal above a certain level would also be useful. I can't remember the name of that plugin either, TCC - I think it has a fuse on the GUI.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:00 pm

Found it ...

Ice9 by Cerberus Audio
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/ice9-a ... erus-audio

mcbpete · Post by **mcbpete** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:06 pm

Unaspected wrote:I can't remember the name of that plugin either, TCC - I think it has a fuse on the GUI.

It's the wonderful Ice9 that has saved my ears/nerves many a time: https://www.pluginboutique.com/products/2759-Ice9

EDIT: Oops, too late by 6 minutes (though it looks like that KVR link to Cerberus Audio is down at the moment)

mjudge55 · Post by **mjudge55** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:11 pm

Point taken, Unaspected. I was looking for an idiot proof solution but maybe the only solution is to stop being an idiot

Still though, is there any reason I shouldn't just stick a soft clipper with zero latency on the master? Boz Little Clipper seems light weight CPU wise and prevents signal from exceeding 0 db.

mjudge55 · Post by **mjudge55** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:13 pm

Checking out Ice9 now, thank you.

mjudge55 · Post by **mjudge55** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:17 pm

Ice9 seems to do the trick -- thanks all!

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:36 pm

justin3am wrote:Turn your speakers down.
Seriously, if your speakers are loud enough to hurt your ears when feedback or full scale noise occurs, it's a gain staging issue. If you set your speakers so that the loudest they can get, is still below your pain threshold, then you won't need to worry about loud spikes. You can then use your DAW or a speaker control box to adjust the signal level which feeds your speakers

definitely this while experimenting, and never with headphones.
even with a limiter set at a reasonable limit, really high pitched feedback in earphones can damage your hearing.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:37 pm

mjudge55 wrote:Ice9 seems to do the trick -- thanks all!

good!
remember your ears are the best tool in your arsenal

look after them!

Samplecraze · Post by **Samplecraze** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:03 am

I have a limiter set to capture 'overs' and I it is used for exactly this reason: to attenuate errant spikes. I then use Smartelectronix to locate the spikes and remove them prior to further mixing. Works great.

Here is the technique I created a video for:
https://www.samplecraze.com/tutorials/s ... -loudness/

How do you prevent ear/speaker damage from accidental level spikes?