Question regarding Mid Side EQ on Master

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

Hi everyone, hope you're all doing well.

I have a question regarding best practices when it comes to your master track fx chain. Specifically, at what point should I add M/S eq (or other fx that add stereo information).

This of course only pertains to tracks that actually benefit from M/S eq, but I generally find that it's a good tool for me to use.

So the question is this, what is the industry standard setup for M/S eq (or just stereo shaping plugins in general) on the master track?
What I mean by that is what order should it go in, in relation to my other plugins.

At first I was thinking it should just go after the master EQ (or even before it), it is an eq after all.
But, I got to thinking, and I started to question this decision.
More than being an eq, M/S eq is used for stereo shaping rather than just tonal balance.
So that brought me to the aforementioned question, where should stereo shaping plugins go in your signal chain?

The age old answer to this question is "do what sounds best to you," and while I understand the importance of this answer, I find that it is often not very helpful to the OP.

I have experimented with different placemens, but I honestly don't think I have enough experience to be able to discern the slight differences of placement of a stereo shaping plugin.

Even if I were to find what placement is best, I would still want to know why that placement is preferred.

So, I come humbly to the forums in search of wisdom from my elders lol.

The answer might just be that it really doesn't matter, but I feel like there is a standard method somewhere in the madness.

Thanks!!

(Small disclaimer, I have tried to do research on this in the past, but I really didn't find any useful results. There may, as of now, be more pertinent sources out there. If so, please direct me to them.)

Post

Relative to other EQ's: it should be not much of a difference.

Relative to compressors/limiters: it can make a difference! Either you compress the stereo-shaped sound, or you stereo-shape the compressed sound.

Another option is to put it only on the tracks or buses that benefit most: pads & reverbs for example. Then it's part of the mixing instead of mastering, which usually is a good idea. Same goes for non-subtle EQ changes that are required. Find the track that causes the problem, and fix it there.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Image
My MusicCalc is served over https!!

Post

I don't have any master EQ while mixing.

While mastering, I use the same principle as for a track: reduce unwanted features -> nonlinear processes -> shaping EQ. The only difference is finishing with a brickwall limiter.

Plugin-wise this is usually Nova GE -> compression/saturation -> SlickEQ M -> Limiter 6 GE.

If the mix is good, you don't need the pre-eq. If you use compression/saturation it will change the frequency balance and the final EQ is needed to control this (as well as perform any other shaping required).

Post

If you're not sure where it should go in the chain, and can't hear the subtle differences anyway, then I'd recommend you to question why you are using one in the first place.

Use M/S EQ when that is what the track you are mastering calls for.

There is no "industry standard placement for M/S EQ in mastering". Mastering engineers do what the track needs to maximise the emotional impact of the client's musical baby.

Post

Hermetech, good to see you again! I think he might be referring to the mid range poke out technique for EDM mixes. But as you say, there is no standard. It's a case of pick the right filtering for the s/c, select the right band for dipping and go from there. I, as mentioned here, prefer to group the sounds that need the s/c triggering as some elements in a mix are best left alone. I specifically do this with heavy low ends in hip hop and sometimes I have to be brutal in bringing the vocals out to sit above that universe engulfing 808.

Post

I always try MS on the master for sh*ts and giggles. Usually if you do a reverse smiley (mid cut on centre / high/low cut on the sides) it sounds awesome (the wideness can be stunning at first) until you just realise something sounds WEIRD - which is that smearing and lack of clarity.

All of your instrument panning, reverb width etc goes out the window.

The take home for me is that a little high passing on the sides is generally (but not always) worth a look.

Post Reply

Return to “Production Techniques”