re: CL Series w/ C7 x64 in W7 x64 <FAO Nick

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Good afternoon ;o)

It's NOT more complaining, I'm hoping I can be of help!

From what I gather there are a few people experiencing problems with this setup (and similar setups) but from browsing this forum it would seem there are still some facts to be established so I thought I'd take it upon myself to help narrow down the cause of the problem through a series of observations.

OBSERVATION #1 - Crashes don't occur in 'empty' projects
When I tested the demo versions of these lovely compressors, I simply loaded up some audio in a blank project and got tweaking with CL1. Everything worked well, so obviously I rushed to the AA store pretty quickly after that. The next time I called up one of these badboys in a working project, the interface came up blank (white) so I had to use Cubase 7's "Use Generic Editor" option (which sucks) in order to get the sound I wanted.

OBSERVATION #2 - Crashes are inevitable as project size grows
IF I start my project with one of the CL plugins early on and everything's OK, it's only a matter of time before that CL plugin brings Cubase down. In other words, it would seem that at some point after more plugins are added, the CL plugin will malfunction. The first sign of this is the fully white GUI, the second sign is Cubase throwing up an error message (much like the ones already posted to this forum by other members).

OBSERVATION #3 - I can run 500+ instances of CL1 with no problems
If I start an 'empty' project, load a wave loop, setup the CL1 compressor in a typical fashion, hit play, duplicate the track, then duplicate both of those tracks, then duplicate all 4 tracks, then 8, and keep repeating this process.. I get above the 500 channel mark before I can't add any more instances. At this point my CPU and disk meters are going wild, but CL1's interface still shows up as normal and Cubase appears to be otherwise stable (at least it's not crashing).

OBSERVATION #4 - The bit-bridged 32bit build running in C7 x64 dies quicker
If I run the same test as in my previous observation but this time using the 32bit version of CL1 running through Steinberg's own BitBridge, the BitBridge itself crashes long, long before I get anywhere near 500 instances. If I kill BitBridge via the Windows Task Manager, Cubase remains stable. I mention this only to highlight that running the 32bit version in C7 x64 is not a solution, since the BitBridge itself will bring Cubase down. (Hence I only buy 64bit plugins now)



And my thoughts...

I wonder whether or not it's possible that there's some sort of 'clash' between the CL Series plugins and some other manufacturer's plugin or plugin framework that could be causing problems with instances of CL1 in busy projects. I have quite an insane collection so it would be difficult for me to narrow down, but for instance I use a lot of SoundToys, FabFilter, Plugin Alliance (Brainworx), iZotope, PSP Audioware, Audio Damage, Slate Digital, Sonimus, Valhalla, Sleepy Time DSP, etc...

Perhaps I will find time to do a 'clash' test to see if there is a specific plugin or manufacturer that upsets the CL Series plugins. No promises though! If anyone else who's experienced this problem is reading, perhaps you could have a look at what plugins you use among those that I've listed above.

Thanks <3
Owen...

P.S. I understand that this problem is not specific to Cubase
P.P.S. I understand that it also occurs with the other Arts Acoustic plugins P.P.P.S. :love:

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OK, I've done some more tests...

OBSERVATION #5 I couldn't find a specific plugin that 'clashes'
That could have just been a naive theory on my part, granted. I try to keep an open mind when problem solving and even try stuff that shouldn't work (like the time I discovered the mouse that didn't work when the curtains were open - for real!). So I tried loading up 1 instance of CL1 and 1 instance of each plugin on a large list I had of plugins I regularly use, but nothing out of the ordinary happened...

OBSERVATION #6 Many instances of a different manufacturer's plugin crashes CL1!
So I loaded up an 'empty' Cubase 7 x64 project, chucked a drum loop on an audio channel, then loaded up a copy of PSP's RetroQ, and I EQ'd the beat as normal. I then added an instance of CL1 and compressed with typical settings. So far so good. Then I duplicated the channel, then duplicated the pair, so 2 became 4, became 8, became 16... after 128 channels, CL1's interface would no longer show up. After some prodding, Cubase just crashed completely.



This time I sent my Cubase crash dump to Steinberg and asked them kindly to shed any light they can and reminded them that AA had requested an NFR with which to troubleshoot the bugs. I'll let you know if / when / what I hear back from them.

Thanks again!
Owen...

(pretty determined to get to the bottom of this!)

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More tests, more findings!

I've heard back from Steinberg support, but they haven't been able to offer any useful insights so far.

OBSERVATION #7 Crashing is related to the GUI!
I'm wondering whether the issue is specific to a particular type of graphics card or driver. I'm using a GeForce GT 220 PCIe, which uses an Nvidia chipset. Anyway, I've found a workaround that so far I've had 100% success with. When I load a CL Series compressor plugin I set it to "Use Generic Interface", which is a Cubase feature that hides the plugin's true GUI and instead displays a generic set of faders to control everything (even switches). The huge downside of this is that all the parameters have their automation names rather than the names on the real interface. Also, the layout is awkward and there are no meters or clip indicators. If I return to the normal GUI, the plugin will crash as normal.

Guys, IF you want, I can make my setup available over TeamViewer so that you can test the plugin on Cubase 7 using my system, save you having to hassle Steinberg for a NFR copy. I understand you're busy, but I think we could finally squash this nasty framework bug!

Thanks again!
Owen...

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I think cl is great sounding plug. After doing demo i am finding it really nice but it is verry buggy in Ableton 9. To bad...i have bunch of plugins of which none does have any or similar problem.

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To add something tiny, I recall the ArtsAcoustic guys had said that they were having trouble getting an NFR copy of Cubase to test on. In case it's useful, there's now a free trial version of Cubase 7 Elements which will provide them 30 days of unlimited use to iron out these problems.

http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/cubase/trial.html

(no dongle needed)

Cubase 7 Elements is only $99 too, so worst case scenario, it would be worth buying a copy so that you can support the host properly. Cubase is an extremely popular DAW choice in today's market.

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I've received another response from Steinberg!

"Dear Mr. Palmer,

Sorry to bother you, but Oscar asked me about your case with the CL1 (which I also own) and I tested on my personal system at home.

I was able to make it crash and saved the data and crash dump.
The data clearly point to Cl1. It crashed while operating a node on DMG Audio EQuilibrium with the mouse wheel, so it might be GUI-related.

May I ask if you have already contacted ArtsAcoustic about this?
If not, I can send you the resolved dump and Windows report, which should help them in spotting the issue.

If you already did, I'll contact them directly and will submit the documents.

Thank you in advance.


Kind regards,

Fabio Bartolini
Steinberg Technical Support"

I'll be contacting Arts Acoustic via their Support system, since this thread seems to have flown under the radar.

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Hattrixx wrote:I've received another response from Steinberg!

"Dear Mr. Palmer,

Sorry to bother you, but Oscar asked me about your case with the CL1 (which I also own) and I tested on my personal system at home.

I was able to make it crash and saved the data and crash dump.
The data clearly point to Cl1. It crashed while operating a node on DMG Audio EQuilibrium with the mouse wheel, so it might be GUI-related.

May I ask if you have already contacted ArtsAcoustic about this?
If not, I can send you the resolved dump and Windows report, which should help them in spotting the issue.

If you already did, I'll contact them directly and will submit the documents.

Thank you in advance.


Kind regards,

Fabio Bartolini
Steinberg Technical Support"

I'll be contacting Arts Acoustic via their Support system, since this thread seems to have flown under the radar.
Very good of Steinberg to be so helpful with this, hats off to them. Please do let us know if you hear back from ArtsAcoustic in relation to this issue.

Thanks a lot for chasing this up too! :)

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