is there oversampling wrapper/container out there?
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 185 posts since 27 Aug, 2014
Hey guys.
Is there something like oversampling wrapper out there? Like you load any plugin into a wrapper and set oversampling. So it does:
[oversampling]-[any loaded 3rd party plugin]-[downsampling]
Anyone knows of something like this?
Is there something like oversampling wrapper out there? Like you load any plugin into a wrapper and set oversampling. So it does:
[oversampling]-[any loaded 3rd party plugin]-[downsampling]
Anyone knows of something like this?
- KVRist
- 351 posts since 11 Jan, 2014
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- KVRAF
- 7709 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA
Here's one:
Wusik X42
https://www.wusik.com/w/index.php/produ ... /wusik-x42
Metaplugin
https://ddmf.eu/metaplugin-chainer-vst- ... x-wrapper/
Also, Cakewalk by Bandlab can upsample:
"SONAR (now Cakewalk) provides another solution, which lets you specify whether a VST or DirectX plug-in effect or instrument should be resampled at 2x the project sample rate when bouncing, rendering, freezing, exporting, etc., or during playback. This allows you to gain the benefits of running at a higher sample rate in a standard 44.1KHz project. This process happens automatically and behind the scenes."
Wusik X42
https://www.wusik.com/w/index.php/produ ... /wusik-x42
Metaplugin
https://ddmf.eu/metaplugin-chainer-vst- ... x-wrapper/
Also, Cakewalk by Bandlab can upsample:
"SONAR (now Cakewalk) provides another solution, which lets you specify whether a VST or DirectX plug-in effect or instrument should be resampled at 2x the project sample rate when bouncing, rendering, freezing, exporting, etc., or during playback. This allows you to gain the benefits of running at a higher sample rate in a standard 44.1KHz project. This process happens automatically and behind the scenes."
- KVRAF
- 6969 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Atlantis Island
Does Bidule (Plogue) offer oversampling?
Haven‘t found something on their homepage...
Haven‘t found something on their homepage...
https://sonograyn.bandcamp.com/music Experimental Ambient
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
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simon.a.billington simon.a.billington https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=341278
- KVRAF
- 2365 posts since 12 Nov, 2014
Yeah, it’s called a DAW. Increase your sample rate, it has the same effect.
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- KVRian
- 872 posts since 28 Nov, 2016
some plugins have maximum allowed sample rates past which they collapse, placing an upper limit on the entire project.
some plugins don't NEED oversampling and burning the processor power to do their calculations at 96k or 192k is a waste of time.
some plugins have their own bit-transparency-capable oversampling algorithms where brute force up-sampling and down-sampling would actually result in marginally worse quality.
- KVRAF
- 8814 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
I wanted to propose it to the devs as well, as the technology of putting plug-ins into their own process is in place already. All it would need GUI wise is a little extra parameter in the plug-in list to define how much oversampling is wanted...
And the process wrapper needs some up- and downsampling...
Edit: thought I was on the Bitwig forum. It should be possible to implement that in Bitwig...
And the process wrapper needs some up- and downsampling...
Edit: thought I was on the Bitwig forum. It should be possible to implement that in Bitwig...
Last edited by Tj Shredder on Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 3972 posts since 20 Feb, 2004
There is/was a little .dll you could put in the folder of any VST that would give it something like up to 4x oversampling. Something like jschris.dll. Unfortunately I can't be of more help, maybe someone else remembers what I'm talking about.
A well-behaved signature.
- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
What if you don't have the CPU power to pull that off for whole project, but still want your master plugins running at highest possible quality?simon.a.billington wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:19 pm Yeah, it’s called a DAW. Increase your sample rate, it has the same effect.
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- KVRAF
- 3089 posts since 4 May, 2012
It makes little sense to oversample the whole system when you can selectively up and down sample individual plugins. Especially as you then have the option to lower the sampling rate on those plugins if you're starting to hit your CPU's limit.antic604 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:38 amWhat if you don't have the CPU power to pull that off for whole project, but still want your master plugins running at highest possible quality?simon.a.billington wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:19 pm Yeah, it’s called a DAW. Increase your sample rate, it has the same effect.
Though I've always run separate project files for mastering purposes - keeping the master buss clean and clear of true peak clipping *during the mix.
EDIT: *
Last edited by Unaspected on Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Banned
- 11467 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland
This is exactly my point...Unaspected wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:58 amIt makes little sense to oversample the whole system when you can selectively up and down sample individual plugins. Especially as you then have the option to lower the sampling rate on those plugins if you're starting to hit your CPU's limit.antic604 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:38 amWhat if you don't have the CPU power to pull that off for whole project, but still want your master plugins running at highest possible quality?simon.a.billington wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:19 pm Yeah, it’s called a DAW. Increase your sample rate, it has the same effect.
- Beware the Quoth
- 33107 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
KVR's own arke/Chris Walton wrote one that did exactly that, but its not been updated in a very long time afaik.
https://sites.google.com/site/vstoversampler/home
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRAF
- 3972 posts since 20 Feb, 2004
Yep, that's the one. It's old and probably unmaintained, but it's freewhyterabbyt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:27 amKVR's own arke/Chris Walton wrote one that did exactly that, but its not been updated in a very long time afaik.
https://sites.google.com/site/vstoversampler/home
A well-behaved signature.
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simon.a.billington simon.a.billington https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=341278
- KVRAF
- 2365 posts since 12 Nov, 2014
It’s a bit of a catch 22 as there are many plugins that oversample, then they’d downsample again, that burns up CPU too. At higher sample rates it may still be doing the oversampling or it may be inactive. It’s really hard to say, so it’s hit and miss. I have noticed though, that at times, when I’d compare projects working at different sample rates, there was very little difference in the CPU hit. But that was my experience.sleepcircle wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:42 amsome plugins have maximum allowed sample rates past which they collapse, placing an upper limit on the entire project.
some plugins don't NEED oversampling and burning the processor power to do their calculations at 96k or 192k is a waste of time.
some plugins have their own bit-transparency-capable oversampling algorithms where brute force up-sampling and down-sampling would actually result in marginally worse quality.
Another bonus though, to working at hire sample rates, is that there is more information to feed your pitch and time algorithms, as well as other sound manipulation processes. It tends to produce better results when tightening up instrument timing or tuning those vocals more tightly. The trade off is more disk space. However, storage keeps getting both cheaper and faster, so I don’t see that as a huge issue.
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- KVRist
- 106 posts since 13 May, 2018
Metaplugin for sure.
IIRC the signal would only benefit if it actually contains data "up until Nyquist". If you only feed a 44.1khz into a higher samplerate and apply pitch, then you hardly get better results. Something like distortion or FM would benefit for sure.simon.a.billington wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:06 pmAnother bonus though, to working at hire sample rates, is that there is more information to feed your pitch and time algorithms, as well as other sound manipulation processes. It tends to produce better results when tightening up instrument timing or tuning those vocals more tightly. The trade off is more disk space. However, storage keeps getting both cheaper and faster, so I don’t see that as a huge issue.