Output - Introducing PORTAL: A Granular FX Plugin

[simmo75]

Is Granite an effects plugin?

Yes, and an instrument too.

I was under the impression Granite was just an instrument. Interesting:)

[lacandon]

This or Cataliz or Palibdrome or eat all hheheh?

[Neon Breath]

*Edit double post

[Neon Breath]

Is Granite an effects plugin?

Yes, and an instrument too.

Granite is NOT an effect, it’s an instrument. Where did you get that?

[elxsound]

Interesting review and tour of Portal:

https://theproaudiofiles.com/portal-gra ... by-output/

My problem with reading this and then not having a demo, is that he says this “sounds” different than other granular effects BUT doesn’t go onto say at what stage they sound different.

This is important, because Portal has onboard effects, most of which I imagine are likely the same ones they include in movement, which are not bad at all, but they are replaceable in a mix.

So the question is... Does Portal’s granular output truly sound different, or does it sound different after the onboard effects, especially since those effects are at the end of the signal chain?

[pinki]

Is Granite an effects plugin?

Yes, and an instrument too.

Granite is NOT an effect, it’s an instrument. Where did you get that?

You are right, my mistake, it loads sounds and samples, it does not take a live input. It has the ability to take midi input from a keyboard as well as just act on the sample. That’s what I was confusing.

[simmo75]

Is Granite an effects plugin?

Yes, and an instrument too.

Granite is NOT an effect, it’s an instrument. Where did you get that?

You are right, my mistake, it loads sounds and samples, it does not take a live input. It has the ability to take midi input from a keyboard as well as just act on the sample. That’s what I was confusing.

I think you’re confused.
You may be thinking about Crusher-X.

[Neon Breath]

Another tour of some of the presets and parameter tweaks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-EjCDXCgyA

I'm still on the verge of getting it or not, not sure. Definitely sounds sweet and fun, not sure if I need it though. Man I wish there was a demo! Probably gonna get it & give it a try, and just ask for a refund if I'm not satisfied at the end. But I'm not very pleased with the hassle it'll require if that's the case, comparing to a simple *demo & not pleased, delete*...

[BONES]

Until they fix the bugs in Movement, they wont be getting any more money for anything from output. They release and then forget.

I think Arcade shows that's not true at all.

Their graphics are nice. But I’d rather want stable and good sounding plugins.

I have never experienced even the tiniest problem with Arcade and we use it on pretty much every song. Ditto for Substance, although it's just a Kontakt instrument so less chance of something going wrong.

To be fair, the complaints about no demo and Output’s policy of requiring you to purchase and request a refund is one of the worst policies in the industry. It’s completely hostile to consumers and companies should be called out for it.

I disagree. It's exactly what you get with any hardware unless you have an extremely good relationship with your local music shop. When I bought Substance it was with great trepidation, having never used Kontakt before, but having to put my money down up-front didn't worry me at all.

Offering a new expensive plugin with no demo and short refund policy while outstanding support issues remain unresolved?
This is *exactly* the right time to complain.

It wouldn't surprise me if the policies weren't deliberately aimed at excluding the part of the market that thinks like that. Save all your support for serious customers with professional expectations sounds like a good idea to me.

Like I mentioned earlier, if someone has time to thoroughly evaluate an expensive (and perhaps esoteric) plugin in two weeks, while balancing work, school, family, then more power to them. [

How many hours do you need to spend with something to work that out? It never takes me more than 3 or 4. In fact it's usually more like one or two hours and sometimes I'll know in the first few minutes.

I don’t think anyone is complaining about it’s sound design potential.

In that case you have just contradicted yourself, haven't you?

I hope anyone who produces a good product makes money from it, but that's a function of price and units sold - if it's too expensive then it won't sell units.

Price also determines the type of user you attract and maybe Output would rather deal with professionals who think noting of laying down $150 for a plugin rather than whiney little toads who want everything for free? So they sell 1000 and make $150,000 or sell 5,000 at $29 and make $145,000. They make more money and keep their support costs lower. Makes sense to me. Output don't seem to want to be a mass market brand, they appear to be happy in their high-end niche.

Anyway, as much as I love my Output stuff, I'm not interested because I'd never pay that much for any effect, no matter how good it was.

[perpetual3]

There is no contradiction. It’s simple:

Refund demo policy + outstanding support issues vs the technical sound design capabilities of the effect. Those are two different issues.

How is it a contradiction?

[EnochLight]

To be fair, the complaints about no demo and Output’s policy of requiring you to purchase and request a refund is one of the worst policies in the industry. It’s completely hostile to consumers and companies should be called out for it.

I disagree. It's exactly what you get with any hardware unless you have an extremely good relationship with your local music shop. When I bought Substance it was with great trepidation, having never used Kontakt before, but having to put my money down up-front didn't worry me at all.

Now Bones.. you’ve been around long enough to know that the vast majority of plugin manufacturers allow the customers they are courting to trial the software as a free demo first. It’s been this way in the software world for decades, so how you’re equating this to purchasing hardware in a shop is disconcerting.

I’m not sure how you can NOT think policies like this are hostile to consumers, but whatever.

Most people here in this forum (and I’d wager most on the Internet on any music forum) trial and buy their wares from the Internet. Plugin manufacturers know this.

Are we talking hardware from a shop? No, we’re talking software from the Internet. The precedence that Output is demonstrating should concern consumers, IMHO.

[perpetual3]

To be fair, the complaints about no demo and Output’s policy of requiring you to purchase and request a refund is one of the worst policies in the industry. It’s completely hostile to consumers and companies should be called out for it.

I disagree. It's exactly what you get with any hardware unless you have an extremely good relationship with your local music shop. When I bought Substance it was with great trepidation, having never used Kontakt before, but having to put my money down up-front didn't worry me at all.

Now Bones.. you’ve been around long enough to know that the vast majority of plugin manufacturers allow the customers they are courting to trial the software as a free demo first. It’s been this way in the software world for decades, so how you’re equating this to purchasing hardware in a shop is disconcerting.

I’m not sure how you can NOT think policies like this are hostile to consumers, but whatever.

Most people here in this forum (and I’d wager most on the Internet on any music forum) trial and buy their wares from the Internet. Plugin manufacturers know this.

Are we talking hardware from a shop? No, we’re talking software from the Internet. The precedence that Output is demonstrating should concern consumers, IMHO.

He is also basing his argument on anecdotal evidence, a well accepted rhetorical fallacy.

[simmo75]

Maybe Output’s policy is because they were first just making sample libraries for Kontakt, there’s very few libraries that allow demos of there products.

They only actually have 2 non-Kontakt products.

I’m demoing Portal and really enjoying it so will end up buying it and don’t have a problem with the refund option, I have had a refund from them and it was easy, they provide great support.

[EnochLight]

Maybe Output’s policy is because they were first just making sample libraries for Kontakt, there’s very few libraries that allow demos of there products.

They only actually have 2 non-Kontakt products.

That’s a completely fair/valid point, but Portal is a VST plugin effect. It’s not difficult to normalize a corporate demo policy for products like this, and bake in audio watermarks, time limits, etc. They could easily keep their Kontakt library product policy and their true plugin effects (and presumably, one day, instrument) policy separate.

[simmo75]

Maybe Output’s policy is because they were first just making sample libraries for Kontakt, there’s very few libraries that allow demos of there products.

They only actually have 2 non-Kontakt products.

That’s a completely fair/valid point, but Portal is a VST plugin effect. It’s not difficult to normalize a corporate demo policy for products like this, and bake in audio watermarks, time limits, etc. They could easily keep their Kontakt library product policy and their true plugin effects (and presumably, one day, instrument) policy separate.

Yeah, I totally agree with you there and maybe eventually they will.