2CAudio Precedence | 1.5 | Move Out Of Flatland. Take Precedence.

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Effects Discussion
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i own stage, but i always use it as an effect. never as a stereo placement tool :P
it's a stunning flanger, and makes some GREAT feedback!

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This is pretty much how I remember Fiedler Stage from demoing it too - the modulation is really fantastic, but the advertised use as a stereo field tool never really blew me away. Kind of the opposite of Precedence then, on both counts.

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$30 in the bargains thread ;)

[fiedler stage i meant]
Last edited by sqigls on Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Aren’t there two genres of these things? One that provides point-source positioning of mono audio, and another that works to enhance an already stereo track? I’d put Precedence with the first type, and Fiedler Stage in the second.
Tranzistow Tutorials: http://vze26m98.net/tranzistow/
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Well, Precedence works with stereo input too, so maybe it works as either...
John Braner
http://johnbraner.bandcamp.com
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
and all the major streaming/download sites.

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A few observations:
- I'm using this with track sends to Aether, and it still sounds nice, and glues things together a little.
- If you delete Breeze 2 or Precedence from a track, in Reaper, while the song is playing - it crashes Reaper every time
- one downside to using Precedence to place tracks in the stereo field - you lose easy visibility - ie you can't just quickly look at the pan controls (because they're all set on "centre") anymore. It's almost like we could use a "Precedence console" to see where things are at a glance. Oh well - we just have to use our ears more ;)

- I also added it to an electric bass track, which has no reverb or reverb send, and no pan (it's right on "Centre") and it still adds a little "3D space" to it - so this seems to work even without any other reverb.
John Braner
http://johnbraner.bandcamp.com
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
and all the major streaming/download sites.

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If i want to use also Kaleidoscope in the chain (if that even makes sense) should i put it before or after Precedence since it also has a lot information about the space.
Maybe it doesn‘t matter or do they work agsinst eachother then in some ways?
So far i like Precedence and i’m happy to join the Perfect Storm 3.5 family. :)
Oh and call me sick but i really would love to see automation on the hue sliders :D
For that hypnotizing visual effect.

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jbraner wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:07 pm A few observations:
- I'm using this with track sends to Aether, and it still sounds nice, and glues things together a little.
- If you delete Breeze 2 or Precedence from a track, in Reaper, while the song is playing - it crashes Reaper every time
- one downside to using Precedence to place tracks in the stereo field - you lose easy visibility - ie you can't just quickly look at the pan controls (because they're all set on "centre") anymore. It's almost like we could use a "Precedence console" to see where things are at a glance. Oh well - we just have to use our ears more ;)

- I also added it to an electric bass track, which has no reverb or reverb send, and no pan (it's right on "Centre") and it still adds a little "3D space" to it - so this seems to work even without any other reverb.
1) yes you can continue to use it with the “verbs” on sends method if you wish. The main benefit from using a 1:1 pairing of P plus B on track inserts is that you will achieve more perfect depth/distance placement. If that is not as important to you using it with verb on sends works too and still provides extra enhancement to verbs as well as adding horizontal placement

2) thanks we will take a look

3) we have some thoughts in this area

4) yes absolutely. It can be used to create ambience/width/space/spatial impression without using any verb. Bass could be a good target as your mention. Vocals for style where the vocal is usually very “dry” is also something to try.

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Cinebient wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:39 am If i want to use also Kaleidoscope in the chain (if that even makes sense) should i put it before or after Precedence since it also has a lot information about the space.
Maybe it doesn‘t matter or do they work agsinst eachother then in some ways?
So far i like Precedence and i’m happy to join the Perfect Storm 3.5 family. :)
Oh and call me sick but i really would love to see automation on the hue sliders :D
For that hypnotizing visual effect.
You should put it after KS. You might then want to use the MidSide expand/collapse input mode and use a lower value such as 25-50% or so to reduce with coming from KS. Then position with P.

Automating GUI hue would take a lot of cpu resources. And would probably be annoying after the
Initial novelty wore off. But who knows maybe something to try in the future. Thanks

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Compared it to Eareverb (Positioning panel), to Panagement and to Oculus Spatializer.
I checked the output with a live sonogram analyzer to measure any timbre change objectively and I checked with a stereo analyzer tool to see if the given stereo image was clear, stable and properly narrow or wide (as desired).

Oculus is very nice and gives a good stereo image, but can be used only with mono sources and changes the timbre remarkably.
Panagement gives a good stereo image, can be used on stereo sources and change the timbre less.
Precedence gives a very good stereo image, can be used on various sources and practically does not change the timbre.

Eareverb gives a medium quality stereo image (and of course changes the timbre a lot, being a reverb).
Panagement plus Eareverb (or one of the two, depending on whether we are interested in having a reverb or not) are useful and can be used to automate moving sources in the stereo space (no clicks here, but Eareverb has serious automation recording problems in Logic, alas).

My conclusion:
Precedence followed by Breeze 2.1 with P-Link seems really the perfect combination for fixed sources (and I personally prefer it with Mix, rather than with Balance).

Precedence with Eareverb, coordinated, can be useful, too.

Panagement… for moving sources, it's ok.

I think I will buy Precedence. (Besides, I have all your three reverbs – plus Kaleidoscope – and it would be a pity not to take part of these new developments, too.)
I am still interested in some unanswered questions: is Precedence mono-compatible? In other words, if the recording in which it has been used is later transformed into mono, will it have problems (phasing, coloring)?
And do you have an idea about how long the introductory price will last?

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Re mono compatability:

It should be reasonably good in general at default settings. Bass range should be free of potential issues with cancelation when summed.

Any kind of delay of any nature introduced between channels can create some kind of filter effect if summed together. This happens in the real world with stereo mics also. Some specific frequencies will be more in phase than others. This will change depending on position and also can change by using the “variation randomize” dice. On average the signal will always be more in phase than out of phase. But specific frequencies can have wider phase differences. If your source sound happens to be very narrow freq band such as sine wave, and the current settingn happens to give more width than you like, simply click the “variation randomize” dice to try another.

If you want exactly perfect mono compatibly for all possible freqs at all times set width to 0%. Modulation is still active in this case and it is still doing various other things to the signal. Ie this does not undo all the magic.

But generally speaking mono compatibility shold be good and if you follow it with breeze using the P-link concept it will be even better.

We’d like to add a phase meter ASAP as an extra feature so you can see these kind of things to help make informed decisions.

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Thank you for explaining, that seems a good situation to me with regard to mono compatibility, considered that it's surely useful in some situations, but not my first priority.

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Andrew Souter wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:22 pm
Cinebient wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:39 am If i want to use also Kaleidoscope in the chain (if that even makes sense) should i put it before or after Precedence since it also has a lot information about the space.
Maybe it doesn‘t matter or do they work agsinst eachother then in some ways?
So far i like Precedence and i’m happy to join the Perfect Storm 3.5 family. :)
Oh and call me sick but i really would love to see automation on the hue sliders :D
For that hypnotizing visual effect.
You should put it after KS. You might then want to use the MidSide expand/collapse input mode and use a lower value such as 25-50% or so to reduce with coming from KS. Then position with P.

Automating GUI hue would take a lot of cpu resources. And would probably be annoying after the
Initial novelty wore off. But who knows maybe something to try in the future. Thanks
Thank´s!
Just done it since i start some Halloween specials....oh man, Kaleidoscope followed by Precedence and then Breeze 2.1 is just wonderful. Some really creepy sounds which creeps under your skin with the pefect sense of death....i mean depth :D
I also played with it with some of my favorite synths with already reverb and delay and whatever included and used Precedence and Breeze 2.1 on top. Copied the whole set-up and then f.e. just place the second in the opposite space and/or a bit more close or far.
That gives really some awesome sense of depth to me.
Then i think i can do this with other tools and if it really gives such a big extra and when i remove Precedence after a while i must say.....yes it does :tu:

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wow this looks like an amazing tool for vocal mixing.
:borg:

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So my understanding is this + breeze 2 can be used to put all my instruments in a space in a mathematically correct manner. That's all well and good, but practically speaking how useful are y'all finding it for mixing? Better than traditional delays and verbs? Worse? About the same?

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