Waves Audio Plugin GUI is laggy and slow

[Klinke1]

Ok, now the support answered again. They compared there test maschines with my GIF and they have the exact same behavior. So this is not a bug, it is like it is.

You got them with their own video... Nice work!

When my PC is not on "Full Power" the GUis get really slow. (it is better with older ones like SSl channel)
On Full power it is still not optimal/a bit jumpy.
(e.g. moving the mouse on an eq gain up and down 2-3 dB, it will loose the middle and suddenly jump from +4 to +10 Db with 6 in the middle.)

What i noticed: e.g. Native Instruments vst are very smooth, but when loaded in maschine and the maschine software knobs are used with mouse...then it will get a bit jumpy, too.

I got a Nvidia-card

[chk071]

I have Teamviewed with them before. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO FEAR.

You actually see what they are doing and can watch their every move. You can learn a bit from watching them work too. They are there to solve a problem for you, not to steal information or plant viruses.

Exactly. There's really nothing to be afraid of, and it helps them a lot, because they're actually seeing what's going on on the computer, and don't have to rely on potentially unprecise, or not very knowledged description. Not saying that that is necessarily the case here, but, it happens a lot.

Anyway, the GIF is of course perfectly fine in this case as well.

[simon.a.billington]

Ok, now the support answered again. They compared there test maschines with my GIF and they have the exact same behavior. So this is not a bug, it is like it is.

You got them with their own video... Nice work!

When my PC is not on "Full Power" the GUis get really slow. (it is better with older ones like SSl channel)
On Full power it is still not optimal/a bit jumpy.
(e.g. moving the mouse on an eq gain up and down 2-3 dB, it will loose the middle and suddenly jump from +4 to +10 Db with 6 in the middle.)

What i noticed: e.g. Native Instruments vst are very smooth, but when loaded in maschine and the maschine software knobs are used with mouse...then it will get a bit jumpy, too.

I got a Nvidia-card

Sounds like you might even have some energy saver settings set up. Have a look at those, make sure that when you run up the DAW the card is on Full or High.

[Eddie TX]

Hey, I wanted to update my earlier post on this topic by reporting that my Waves plugins behave much better after I swapped out my Radeon video card for a new 2GB fanless GT710 NVIDIA model. Still not perfect, but it was 40 bucks well spent. Better overall video performance, too.

For anyone with a Radeon card having trouble with laggy plugin GUIs, this may be worth trying.

Cheers,
Eddie

[cprompt]

Yes, I had the same issue. I had an older ATI Radeon card and my Waves plugins did not work well at all. I replaced it with a cheap Nvidia card and they've been faultless ever since. I put this down to the quality of the OpenGL drivers which on the ATI were 1.something whereas on the Nvidia they are the latest 2.whatever.

Coincidentally, even though SKNote plugins don't use OpenGL, the meters would often freeze on the ATI card. Like Waves, they have performed faultlessly on the Nvidia. Ultimately, I put it down to the general crappiness of the ATI card!

[iftango]

I have an MSI Nvidia GTX1070 and am experiencing the laginess, before and after a complete Windows reinstall.
I emailed support about it and am awaiting for their reply.

[simon.a.billington]

Yeah that’s a beefy card, so something funky seems to be going on.

Perhaps on a OpenGL/CL driver level??

[Detch]

They been laggy for me almost forever.
I changed many cards and overall hardware. Currently i'm on GTX760 i7 7700K, and it's all laggy.
No hope

[tassysk]

HI Guys
In Harison Mixbus we have a long discussion on this Waves issues with freeze.
Black humor but good to see that in other DAWs it is the same.
We think something should be done to Waves to rattle their stock answer " DAW not supported" and make them realize that something is not good in their OGL approach in the plugins
All the same which platform, Linix, Windows Mac, the waves plugins mainly H-xxx and Abbey Roadxxx the bigger and more complex ones cause freeze if moved in Reason, Reaper and Cubase and Mixbus, Harrison 32C, and nowadays even in Mixcraft that used to have handle the Waves a bit better in my investigations.
Here is my OGL view and wonder whether the unsupported have something to do with the freeze issue.
Some other also checked their OGL and all have different results regarding supported items.

We hope KVR has a better chance to make Waves respond than just single, though a lot, users.
Thanks
best wishes
Tassy

OGL Viewer report.jpg

[johne53]

I'm also involved with Mixbus and I can confirm that this is definitely an issue with OpenGL. I investigated it back in 2018:-

http://mixbus.harrisonconsoles.com/foru ... l#pid39065

I only investigated on Windows but I'm assuming it'll be the same problem for other OS's...

The bottom line is that OpenGL plugins will always try to run their OpenGL code on your graphics card - BUT - if the plugin requests a feature which isn't supported by your card, OpenGL will bomb out and pass control to your computer's CPU (rather than the card's GPU). This will be very demanding on your CPU. So if you use too many OpenGL plugins (or if the host DAW also needs a lot of CPU time) they'll all be fighting for the CPU's attention and that's why you get poor performance.

I tested several OpenGL plugins and many ran perfectly but many didn't. So this is clearly a workable technology - but it's a long way from being perfect. And for audio plugins, too many manufacturers don't seem to understand that it needs to be used with care

In my testing, Waves plugins were far & away the worst performers - so as Tassy said, it's high time we all rattled Waves's cage and simply embarrass them into finally getting this fixed!!

[johne53]

This might also be relevant... I happened to be testing on Windows and I remember that the "Waves Central" directory included a file called opengl32sw.dll

This made me wonder if Waves was even using my card's onboard openGL or whether they'd implemented their own version? Or do the plugins and the Waves Central interface use different versions of openGL? I just don't know...

Does anyone know if it's possible to use the H-series plugins etc - without needing to have Waves Central installed?

[robotmonkey]

This might also be relevant... I happened to be testing on Windows and I remember that the "Waves Central" directory included a file called opengl32sw.dll

This made me wonder if Waves was even using my card's onboard openGL or whether they'd implemented their own version? Or do the plugins and the Waves Central interface use different versions of openGL? I just don't know...

Does anyone know if it's possible to use the H-series plugins etc - without needing to have Waves Central installed?

Anything in Waves Central folder should have absolutely no effect on day to day running of your plugins. Waves Central is there just to activate and download them and uninstall them. It is not possible to install newer Waves plugins without the Central. I think v9.30 was the last version that had a simple setup.exe installer.

[simon.a.billington]

I'm also involved with Mixbus and I can confirm that this is definitely an issue with OpenGL. I investigated it back in 2018:-

http://mixbus.harrisonconsoles.com/foru ... l#pid39065

I only investigated on Windows but I'm assuming it'll be the same problem for other OS's...

The bottom line is that OpenGL plugins will always try to run their OpenGL code on your graphics card - BUT - if the plugin requests a feature which isn't supported by your card, OpenGL will bomb out and pass control to your computer's CPU (rather than the card's GPU). This will be very demanding on your CPU. So if you use too many OpenGL plugins (or if the host DAW also needs a lot of CPU time) they'll all be fighting for the CPU's attention and that's why you get poor performance.

I tested several OpenGL plugins and many ran perfectly but many didn't. So this is clearly a workable technology - but it's a long way from being perfect. And for audio plugins, too many manufacturers don't seem to understand that it needs to be used with care

In my testing, Waves plugins were far & away the worst performers - so as Tassy said, it's high time we all rattled Waves's cage and simply embarrass them into finally getting this fixed!!

If there is any fixing done at this point it will be all Version 11. In fact, have people done any testing in 11??

[johne53]

FWIW we managed to find a fix for this (with NVidia cards):-

http://mixbus.harrisonconsoles.com/foru ... l#pid47236

You'll need to join the Mixbus forum to view the images but the bottom line is that you need to adjust a couple of NVidia's 3D settings - which force it to run OpenGL on your card's GPU, rather than using your CPU.

[Irradium]

Just moved this slider (see pic) to the topmost left in the nVidia control panel - and all these "sluggishnesses'' of Waves plugs immediately have gone away like a bad dream...