Acon Digital Verberate - New realistic algorithmic reverb

[bmanic]

Are you referring to the 'COLOR' modes?

I used the 'NOW' mode and here I heard 'boxiness' in VVV which neither the Verberate or Breeze2 had. This was when using a tweaked hall preset (using with a synth sound). I just got a much nicer sound out of the other two.

That boxiness/buildup of 150 to 600Hz region is the main problem with both VVV and Valhalla Room. You can read my old posts about it that go all the way back to the first release.

It's something that the expensive and classic reverbs seemingly avoid (some of the high-end Lexicon reverbs being very famous for). The best way I can describe a very high-end reverb is that it "mixes itself". If you send a muddy signal into one of these awesome classic reverbs the mud does not get exaggerated in the track. If you send a thin signal into one of these, the overall signal within the mix still remains thin. The actual character of the source isn't changed much, only it's virtual position within the Z axis and it's reverb properties are changed.

The Bricasti reverb is a true master when it comes to this feat. You can send pretty much any signal into it and it just gets a position within the mix and a reverb tail amount. That's it.

This is not the case with most of the Valhalla algorithms (and many other reverb plugins and quite a few hardware). It's what separates the true classics in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, the Valhalla reverbs are excellent but they are definitely not perfect as some would have you believe.

Acon Digital Verberate avoids this mud pitfall most of the time as well which is most likely what people hear as "high quality". I'm pretty sure that mud avoidance thing is what everybody instinctively hear as a good room/good acoustics, even in real life. What makes it so complicated is that it's NOT about EQ. People who tell you to simply EQ the signal don't seem to understand how it all works. You can mitigate some of the mud with EQ but it's definitely not the solution.. just like you can use EQ a little bit to improve your monitoring acoustics but it's not a cure for real acoustic problems in the room.

[v1o]

Have you guys compared this to the new Toneboosters reverb?

[Winstontaneous]

Are you referring to the 'COLOR' modes?

I used the 'NOW' mode and here I heard 'boxiness' in VVV which neither the Verberate or Breeze2 had. This was when using a tweaked hall preset (using with a synth sound). I just got a much nicer sound out of the other two.

That boxiness/buildup of 150 to 600Hz region is the main problem with both VVV and Valhalla Room. You can read my old posts about it that go all the way back to the first release.

It's something that the expensive and classic reverbs seemingly avoid (some of the high-end Lexicon reverbs being very famous for). The best way I can describe a very high-end reverb is that it "mixes itself". If you send a muddy signal into one of these awesome classic reverbs the mud does not get exaggerated in the track. If you send a thin signal into one of these, the overall signal within the mix still remains thin. The actual character of the source isn't changed much, only it's virtual position within the Z axis and it's reverb properties are changed.

The Bricasti reverb is a true master when it comes to this feat. You can send pretty much any signal into it and it just gets a position within the mix and a reverb tail amount. That's it.

This is not the case with most of the Valhalla algorithms (and many other reverb plugins and quite a few hardware). It's what separates the true classics in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, the Valhalla reverbs are excellent but they are definitely not perfect as some would have you believe.

Acon Digital Verberate avoids this mud pitfall most of the time as well which is most likely what people hear as "high quality". I'm pretty sure that mud avoidance thing is what everybody instinctively hear as a good room/good acoustics, even in real life. What makes it so complicated is that it's NOT about EQ. People who tell you to simply EQ the signal don't seem to understand how it all works. You can mitigate some of the mud with EQ but it's definitely not the solution.. just like you can use EQ a little bit to improve your monitoring acoustics but it's not a cure for real acoustic problems in the room.

For Valhalla verbs I was talking about Mode meaning algorithms (Smooth Plate, Ambience, etc.)

I hear what you're saying (both literally and figuratively). Somehow Acon Verberate just works for a lot of applications where I want something to sound realistically placed in a space but need more flexibility than a convolution reverb. I find myself using longer decays and higher reverb levels than I might have before because it sounds so sweet! Note, there's a difference between sounding "good" and sounding "nice" (meaning polite reverbs that get buried in the mix).

It's taken me a while to get Valhalla verbs to do what I really want - the variety of algorithms give you enough room to hang yourself. I was kind of shooting in the dark with ValhallaVintageVerb until I realized the huge effect that BassMult, Size, Attack, and Diffusion on the different algorithms have. If you change the Mode on a preset, you'll likely need to adjust those to get something useful let alone optimal, and by that time a different "Color" may be called for as well.

I respect your both of you (bmanic & himalaya) for your work as sound/preset designers so I'm sure you figured this out a while ago, just thinking out loud here!

[Winstontaneous]

Have you guys compared this to the new Toneboosters reverb?

I picked that up recently as well, since I already had the TB TrackEssentials, TB Reverb 4 was 1/2 price, and I can honestly say it's the best $19 reverb I've ever tried. It's got a good clean sound and is quite versatile.

That said it's a bit more fiddly than Acon Verberate.
- While it has a Dry signal defeat checkbox, there's no way to lock the Wet mix which is really annoying when changing presets.
- Speaking of presets, TB relies more on host preset systems which makes managing presets across multiple hosts a bit of a pain.
- It has a Compress slider; this is OK but I think a Gain control with the option to add up to 10-20 dB like the Acon would be much more useful
- I'm almost certain Pre-Delay only delays Late Reverb, not Early Reflections
- Not sure of a way to adjust Attack independently of Decay (noticeable on longer reverbs)
- Shimmer mode doesn't have quite the "OMG" factor as Valhalla Shimmer. Valhalla is like "There's this enormous fog bank of sound slowly rolling my way, I shall frolic in its immensity", TB shimmer is "There's a pitch shifter or two on my reverb, cool."
- Since there's a tempo-synced LFO, why no tempo-synced pre-delay?
- With the amount of options on tap I think a spectral display would be great
- Frequency-based decay time controls don't seem to have quite the degree of effect as the ones on Verberate or FabFilter Pro-R

[plexuss]

+1

I owned Verberate for a few years. I really like it. But I was cleaning out my plugins a bit and decided to sell it because I had so many other reverbs and its over-lap with the other wasn't worth keeping it. Although I was apprehensive about selling it. Then it came on sale really cheap and I picked it up again! Definitely worth it to me even with so many other reverbs. That sale was a great way to resolve some regret for selling my license. It is a nice sounding algo verb!

[stian]

Hi!

Thanks for all the kind words about Verberate!

While we're on the subject, a few feature requests:
- Make interface scalable, not just re-sizeable
- How about some additional late reverb models?
- Tempo-synced pre-delay
- Would be nice to have a spectrogram of reverb output, but not essential
- User skins would be cool!

Thanks for the suggestions. Regarding scaling, I'm thinking about adding a preferences window for stuff like that. I think the resize grip should do what it currently does, but I see the need for setting the scaling since the DPI settings aren't usually communicated between host and plug-in in Windows. There are also plans for further late reverb models. There are some other stuff in the pipeline, so it might take a while, but we definitely want to release further Verberate updates.

Best,
Stian

[dickiefunk]

Hi!

Thanks for all the kind words about Verberate!

Thanks for the suggestions. Regarding scaling, I'm thinking about adding a preferences window for stuff like that. I think the resize grip should do what it currently does, but I see the need for setting the scaling since the DPI settings aren't usually communicated between host and plug-in in Windows. There are also plans for further late reverb models. There are some other stuff in the pipeline, so it might take a while, but we definitely want to release further Verberate updates.

Best,
Stian

Great news to hear there are future plans to develop Verberate. I have tried most of the reverbs available and Verberate is my go to for pretty much everything along with Equlaize!
Restoration suite is excellent as well!

[stian]

Hi Richard!

Great news to hear there are future plans to develop Verberate. I have tried most of the reverbs available and Verberate is my go to for pretty much everything along with Equlaize!
Restoration suite is excellent as well!

Thanks -- very glad to hear that!

Best,
Stian

[jens]

While I think Verberate sounds quite nice and convincing, I am really puzzled by the extremely low output gain of the ER - even at +18dB (and dry @unity) it's barely audible and for the life of me I could not tell a difference between the different modes/algos... what do I not get?

[stian]

Hi Jens,

While I think Verberate sounds quite nice and convincing, I am really puzzled by the extremely low output gain of the ER - even at +18dB (and dry @unity) it's barely audible and for the life of me I could not tell a difference between the different modes/algos... what do I not get?

The ER level is a post fader and dependent on the reverb level. You can solo the ERs by disabling the dry and late reverb signal using the check boxes to the right of the text entry fields.

Best,
Stian

[jens]

Sure, but what I meant is that the relative Level of the ER signal is so low that the ER-algo seems practically irrelevant (unless one doesn't use the Late reverb at all and instead uses only ist fader as a boost for the ER) so I'm still not understanding what the actual purpose of the ER module is (the way it has been implemented). I clearly must be missing something.

[jens]

Ah, I think if ones used Verberate on a send it actually starts to make a - perhaps still subtle but - audible difference,

[stian]

Hi Jens,

Ah, I think if ones used Verberate on a send it actually starts to make a - perhaps still subtle but - audible difference,

Hmm, I don't know what's going on there. It should definitely be audible and it shouldn't make any difference whether you use it as an insert or send. Which host are you using?

Best,
Stian

[jens]

I tried it in Reaper - I meant using it as a send because it means having a lot higher Late Level - I think in theory the relation between late and early reflections should not be changed by this (because both get increased by the same amount, right?), but it seems to me it clearly does, making the ER more audible.

[trmupstage]

I tried it in Reaper - I meant using it as a send because it means having a lot higher Late Level - I think in theory the relation between late and early reflections should not be changed by this (because both get increased by the same amount, right?), but it seems to me it clearly does, making the ER more audible.

I picked up Verberate a few weeks ago and I have to say I had the same thoughts. The ER choices made very little difference to the sound. There does seem to be ways to tweak it to make the ER more audible but with the stock presets, ER doesn't make a whole lot of difference on the various choices. I was expecting that if I muted the reverb and just listened to the ER that each selection would amount to a huge difference. It doesn't until I turn the room size up to 50% or higher. Then I can start to hear the differences.