2CAudio Breeze | 2.5 | Simple. Light. Pristine. Intelligently Adaptive.

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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Andrew Souter
KVRAF
2584 posts since 12 Sep, 2008

Post Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:43 am

ya true I guess. but then try to explain why it's actually not -6, 12, etc dB but

-6.0205999132796239043...
-12.041199826559247809...
-18.061799739838871713...
etc

if were were going to use a log scale in music I think log2 would at least be better. ;-)

anyway, this is completely pedantic, I know. of course dB is not going anywhere any time soon and people have learned to think in dB.

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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
5968 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:47 am

It's a good thing it's so accurate too ... because when I'm setting the value I'm using my highly calibrated ears and razor sharp vision to align that pumping meter bar to somewhere right around well there-ish.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

User avatar
Andrew Souter
KVRAF
2584 posts since 12 Sep, 2008

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:48 am

true. :D

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Andrew Souter
KVRAF
2584 posts since 12 Sep, 2008

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:11 am

there are various "magic numbers" in nature though if you'd like to call them that.

simple fractions, special irrational/trancedental numbers etc. these things have some form of universal meaning/identity and they are related to musical aesthetics as well.

1/2 has such an identity.
2/3, 3/4, 2/5, 3/5, 5/8... etc also do.

sqrt(1/2) has an important identity.
(sqrt(5) + 1) /2 has an important identity.
so do pi & e etc...

exactly -3dB, -6dB -12dB etc do not have any special significance... they are not the limit case of any kind of special problem, and have no significant meaning. They are basically sqrt(1/2) + error, 1/2 + error, 1/4 + error. that is their identity.

simple fractions are most rational. (expressed by a ratio)
irrational numbers are most complex/irrational. (not expressed by a ratio)

they are two extremes, two limit cases. Everything else is something in-between in no-man's land. Neither hot, nor cold... as such:
Revelation 3:15-16 King James Version (KJV)

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
(hey it's Sunday after all, so it seemed an appropriate metaphor. :scared: )

Can you tell, I'm jonesin' for Kaleidoscope time. :wink: These are the kind of things KS leads one to think about. :borg: (if you want to design your own images and tunings). But they have relevance to all aspects of DSP and design as well. At least IMHO of course...
Last edited by Andrew Souter on Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jens
KVRAF
19705 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:03 am

No Kaleidoscope time for you until B Tutu is done!

enCiphered
KVRian
585 posts since 13 Dec, 2016

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:05 pm

Kaleidoscope is a very deep and cool instrument. Unfortunately I´m not able to use it as it crashes my DAW all the time.
I know this is not the proper thread but I really hope that KS will run as stable and cpu efficient as Breeze does in a future update.

User avatar
Andrew Souter
KVRAF
2584 posts since 12 Sep, 2008

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:35 pm

enCiphered wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:05 pm
Kaleidoscope is a very deep and cool instrument. Unfortunately I´m not able to use it as it crashes my DAW all the time.
I know this is not the proper thread but I really hope that KS will run as stable and cpu efficient as Breeze does in a future update.
thanks for the compliment. :tu:

Re crashing, I am not too familiar with any crash problems of the latest version. If you get a crash log, please email it to us.

Re CPU efficiency, it is actually already very efficient for what it does. Breeze is as efficient as it is in part bc of things we learned while optimizing KS. But a single instance of KS can effectively have > 1000 voices all with multiple modulation sources, so of course this is by nature not a low-CPU process. And due to its multi-threading it works best at larger buffers. But it can use as many cores are you can throw at it, so if you have many cores to use and can use a medium to large buffer, it is actually very efficient relative to the amount of work it does. (and it scales linearly relative to the work it does. If you you use only one active pixel line/voice it will be much much faster than if you use 1000!) You should have seen the initial 1.0.0 version. That was no where near as efficient as the current 1.1.x version. We will see what happens with the next version. Certainly there will be an AVX-512 optimization and that will help if you have a bleeding edge CPU (Skylake-X, Xeon W, Xeon SP and newer Intel CPUs), but for AVX2, AVX1, and older CPUs I guess we are already close to peak optimization. But who knows, maybe we will surprise ourselves.

enCiphered
KVRian
585 posts since 13 Dec, 2016

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:52 pm

Andrew Souter wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:35 pm
enCiphered wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:05 pm
Kaleidoscope is a very deep and cool instrument. Unfortunately I´m not able to use it as it crashes my DAW all the time.
I know this is not the proper thread but I really hope that KS will run as stable and cpu efficient as Breeze does in a future update.
thanks for the compliment. :tu:

Re crashing, I am not too familiar with any crash problems of the latest version. If you get a crash log, please email it to us.

Re CPU efficiency, it is actually already very efficient for what it does. Breeze is as efficient as it is in part bc of things we learned while optimizing KS. But a single instance of KS can effectively have > 1000 voices all with multiple modulation sources, so of course this is by nature not a low-CPU process. And due to its multi-threading it works best at larger buffers. But it can use as many cores are you can throw at it, so if you have many cores to use and can use a medium to large buffer, it is actually very efficient relative to the amount of work it does. (and it scales linearly relative to the work it does. If you you use only one active pixel line/voice it will be much much faster than if you use 1000!) You should have seen the initial 1.0.0 version. That was no where near as efficient as the current 1.1.x version. We will see what happens with the next version. Certainly there will be an AVX-512 optimization and that will help if you have a bleeding edge CPU (Skylake-X, Xeon W, Xeon SP and newer Intel CPUs), but for AVX2, AVX1, and older CPUs I guess we are already close to peak optimization. But who knows, maybe we will surprise ourselves.
Thanks Andrew, very interesting.
KS crashes on a windows 10 workstation with 16 logical cores (dual xeon), in Cubase Pro 10.
Actually enough power to run KS smoothly while using it as an insert effect on a simple instrument track. As soon as I start to tweak some parameters, loading factory images and browse through the different settings like voicings and timing, a huge glitch is coming out from my speakers and Cubase crashes. Where can I find the crash log files to send them to you?

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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
5968 posts since 5 Jul, 2001 from Just about .... there

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:02 pm

I use multiple instances of ks on win 10 and cubase pro 10. No crashes as insert or fx send.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

axb312
KVRist
261 posts since 25 Aug, 2017

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:54 am

Can anyone guide me on how to go about creating a shimmery reverb ala Valhalla Shimmer or Eventide blackhole using Breeze 2?

User avatar
Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
14935 posts since 12 Oct, 2008 from Here and there

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:48 am

axb312 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:54 am
Can anyone guide me on how to go about creating a shimmery reverb ala Valhalla Shimmer or Eventide blackhole using Breeze 2?
Breeze 2 doesn't have an inbuilt pitch-shifter, so you can't make it shimmer like Valhalla Shimmer.

axb312
KVRist
261 posts since 25 Aug, 2017

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:51 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:48 am
axb312 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:54 am
Can anyone guide me on how to go about creating a shimmery reverb ala Valhalla Shimmer or Eventide blackhole using Breeze 2?
Breeze 2 doesn't have an inbuilt pitch-shifter, so you can't make it shimmer like Valhalla Shimmer.
Thank you. Would this effect be possible with Vintage Verb?

Is this what differentiates Blackhole from Breeze 2? Or is shimmer entirely different from all the verbs mentioned here...?

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Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
14935 posts since 12 Oct, 2008 from Here and there

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:44 am

axb312 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:51 am
Sampleconstruct wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:48 am
axb312 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:54 am
Can anyone guide me on how to go about creating a shimmery reverb ala Valhalla Shimmer or Eventide blackhole using Breeze 2?
Breeze 2 doesn't have an inbuilt pitch-shifter, so you can't make it shimmer like Valhalla Shimmer.
Thank you. Would this effect be possible with Vintage Verb?

Is this what differentiates Blackhole from Breeze 2? Or is shimmer entirely different from all the verbs mentioned here...?
No, Vintage verb doesn't have a pitch-shifter either, neither does Black Hole - the term shimmer is often abused for a reverb with lots of high frequencies, but per definition it's a reverb with cascades of feed-backing pitch shifts, usually octaves or perfect fifths (ascending or descending), but you can use any interval to create those pitch-shifted reverb clouds. There are some other devs who offer this type of effect (e.g. you can build one yourself with Melda's MXXX) or use your DAW to make one by feed-backing the reverb channel back on itself and inserting a pitch-shifter post reverb.

EDIT: and there is Reverbical by RealTimeOnly which also has some nice shimmer.

User avatar
martinjuenke
KVRAF
4243 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:48 am

Luminance of Sinevibes does that effect quite good...

Arrested Developer
KVRian
647 posts since 8 Apr, 2012

Re: 2CAudio Breeze 2.1 | P-Link | Sub-Zero Suspend-On-Slience | Chameleon Color

Post Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:05 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:44 am
There are some other devs who offer this type of effect...
Two other alternatives:
If you have Reaktor 5 or 6 there is a free Boscomac effect called "Stellar" that does this trick (it offers different variations of pitch shifting, like -12/+12 or +7 etc.

And then there is Audiority's "Polaris", a very unique Reverb/Echo that also offers shimmer.
(it's my favorite one, besides of some Granular-Shimmer effects that i built in MXXX)

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