Lexicon plugin reverb versus TC VSS3

[SoundPorn]

I love how Sean stopped through and clearly noticed people talking about how there isn't a vst with the Lexi Random Space algo and now he got a vst with 2 different random spaces.

[Winstontaneous]

Curious, have either of you compared VSS3 to Relab VSR24? I know they're not modeling exactly the same TC devices. VSR24 is impressive

Random folks on the net comparing reverbs... how valid is that?

I love algorithmic reverbs and ask random folks about their experience with them in pretty much every 'verb thread.

So how do you know their skill level, style, use - to make a conclusion if their opinion is valid or not?

Just having a talk on a favourite topic? That's different from asking a specific question and receiving an informed and competent answer.

Now look here: 1. Lexicon PCM reverbs are gorgeous, man, they are on countless records, etc. 2. Oh, but they are outdated because Exponential Audio. 3. What kind of Plate and Vintage Plate is that, it's not physical modelling, how can you compare it to VPlate or to Kush plate?! 4. Oh, but they mix better with large track counts. 5. Never mind that, I prefer reverb X from company Y, because..... And so on and so forth - all this becomes rather predictable after a while, don't you think?

Actually, no it is not predictable, which is why I ask a gamut of questions about reverbs from the totally vague to the extremely specific. I also provide very detailed replies on the subject if asked nicely.

I listen to stuff on peoples' signatures and have a sense of who knows what from being here a decade. I'm also happy to hear the reverb opinions of newbies, hobbyists, hacks & trainspotters. More than any other effect (to me) reverb is the most intriguing as it's synaesthetic - an aural space conjuring up a visual, physical space in the mind's eye through psychoacoustic cues.

Have a nice day!

[AC222]

For me the way how PCM and VSS3 blends with dry signal is unbelievable

Indeeed. These two are the gold standard imo and better than just about any other algo reverbs on the market that disappoint me terribly. Most algo reverbs ruin sound as quickly any low quality digital comps and comoressors. They blur the sound and make everythig extremely muddy. Compared to hardware counterparts they lsck depth, width, and clarity.

These two are exceptions. The only other two that interest me after a long list of trials with most reverbs are the mturbo reverb mentioned in another post and Virsyn Reflect (oldie and hybrid of convolution for early reflections and and algo tail) based off some more impressive sound samples online.

Curious, have either of you compared VSS3 to Relab VSR24? I know they're not modeling exactly the same TC devices. VSR24 is impressive but feels kind of impersonal to me, and honestly I feel like I'd need better monitors to make use of its nuances. Hearing you compare the blend of VSS3 and PCM (which does something unique - make even dark, colored low-volume reverb audible but not overpowering or muddy) intrigues me.

Yes, I have. I own VSS3 for Powercore and the native version as well to boot. No, they are nor exactly the same despite claims of a direct port. Coding for dsp and native has differences. But powercore still sounds better. Same basic sound but with more depth.

Also have played with but dont own VSS4 on System 6000. You hear the remarkable similarities between the early reflections on the Relab and even the tails but aside from nailing the character, the real System 6000 is undoubtedly better. It is wider, has more depth of sound, and melds with the sound source better. In comparison, VSR slightly blurs the sound source a smidge versus the real deal and that for me is a deal-breaker. You will also notice that the transient response sounds bigger with real hardware reverbs verus most plugins including VSR. In sound clips comparing a real 480L versus the Relab clone, the character is mostly there but the transients and low end impact on drums and even vocals sounds way way bigger and clearer on the hardware. Youd have to be hard of hearing not to notice the difference.

Native VSS3 in comparison to the Relab blends with the source material better. More like real hardware.

Now there is one key difference that could sway your opinion. VSS3 is stereo source while the Relab is true stereo. There are some benefits to true stereo. It does sound wider and seems to give more space fit the reverb into the stereo spectrum.

But VSS3 native still sounds smoother and blends better to me than the Relab VSR. VSS3 in comparison sounds less like smudge and doesn't lack depth in the same way that most plugins emulating classics do.

Verdict: VSS3 is better for me, VSR ok for a plugin but not up to snuff versus real hardware. There is a difference between nailing the character versus being indistinguishable between the hardware it emulates. No contest the real hardware has more depth, sounds wider, sounds smoother, and blends with source material. VSS3 gets me in the ballpark of sounding like real hardware where VSR does not. I just wish VSS3 was true stereo.

[TheSynthScientist]

Both are classics and have different sounds.
Would use both in different scenarios.

[kmonkey]

In sound clips comparing a real 480L versus the Relab clone, the character is mostly there but the transients and low end impact on drums and even vocals sounds way way bigger and clearer on the hardware. Youd have to be hard of hearing not to notice the difference.

You are full of selfentitled shit and nonsense. You just pissed on your self proclaimed reverb hearing abilities.

It is so cool to say "i hear obvious difference in hardware" when you know which clip is which. We've seen it thousands of times before your "Youd have to be hard of hearing not to notice the difference"

AFAIK Relab posted A-B comparison almost a decade ago and noone was able to pickup real thing from the plugin. Not a single person. Literally. They offered free licenses to anyone able to pick it up. It was really that good. It was single file switching between plugin and hw and you needed to guess and pinpoint time when exactly plugin is processing as opposed to hardware.

I remember a guy at GS posting fake LX480 Hardware examples (that was fun) to prove supposed hardware superiority. Later he was debunked.

I mean go and make some music, stop feeding your nonsense.

If you are so bold why don't you make it public. Call them and ask them for public test of LX480 plugin vs hardware and then win that. You will get a free plugin from them (which you can sell after) and i will send you 200$. There i said it in public. I challenge you. Because i am sick of it. I believe 200$ of my money is more then enough for 5min listening job. Assuming that you really organize and ask them for public shootout.

If you loose you send me 100$ to my paypal What you say? Though i am sure you will loose and then you will claim i split money with Relab and test was rigged. There will be no other explanation for you and your golden ear. Or even better you will now say that you don't have to prove nothing to anyone. But somehow at the same time you feel free to make unproven bold statements about obvious differences which only you can hear.

To the OP: I have both, Lex and VSS3 Native.

VSS3 is entirely different in character. Really that different. I suggest you demo both because reverbs can be personal thing. Lexicon is more musical while VSS3 is more clinical 8in a good way). Saying this in subjective manner.

[AC222]

Lol lol. Getting that worked up about a post. Yes, the differences are obvious. Check your hearing please and maybe with it get an attitude adjustment.

[jens]

No, he didn't get "worked up" - you just made a huge fool of yourself (so much as that from now on your opinion in regards to anything can safely be ignored) and he eloquently pointed that out.

[AC222]

I don't think you know the meaning of the word eoloquent. All i see is a bunch of meaningless blabber with swearing and name-calling. Grimpt?!

I was asked about the plugins and I responded. Not sure how that qualifies as making a fool of myself. All i see is some random dude on kvr go off topic on rant about "golden ears" to a direct response i had to someome else. All because he doesn't want to hear that the plugin doesn't stack up with the hardware sonically. I'm here to talk about plugins and if you want to talk about plugins thats cool even if we have all differing thoughts on them.

I don't see the point in you proclaiming my posts should be ignored. It's not like your opinion means a thing to me either. I thought we were here to talk about effects and plugins .so how about we stick to that.

[jens]

lol

[electro]

AFAIK Relab posted A-B comparison almost a decade ago and noone was able to pickup real thing from the plugin. Not a single person. Literally. They offered free licenses to anyone able to pick it up. It was really that good. It was single file switching between plugin and hw and you needed to guess and pinpoint time when exactly plugin is processing as opposed to hardware.

Blind A/B is proof a manufacturer has full confidence in an emulation product. Another company that did this A/B test where nearly everyone failed was XILS-Lab with XILS V+

[AC222]

I suppose its a matter of perspective. I think is more of a savvy marketing technique than anything. How many people do you really think are going to haggleover trying to get a free plugin? And can claims of winning a shooutout truly be validated? Just like the money back guarantee that is meant to inspire confidence and trust but when you ask for your money back it ends up being way more trouble than its worth. Look up My Pillow. You might be entertained!

Personally, I think its great that a random Joe can get a cheap approximation of a classic reverb device and make a record that pleases him on Reason and makes him feel like a big shot. And if for a very affordable price that person cannot hear the difference, that is great.

[AC222]

lindell-mypillow_large.jpg

[AC222]

By the way, I didnt add the caption below but thats the ad that gets the message across. It is am extremely effective marketing technique. Sales through the roof in the USA but nobody can seem to get their money back

[SteveWZ]

lindell-mypillow_large.jpg

This guy should have stuck with "pillow talk" and veered away from politics.

[AC222]

Nothing political here buddy boy. Just facts