Lexicon plugin reverb versus TC VSS3

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Relab plugin? Never heard of it. Any links?

See here (buttom) and here .
Plugin's internal codename is LX480.

My guess is that upon release people are going to love this, call it one of the best plugin reverbs ever, and then say to themselves, "wait, the guy who made LX480 also made CSR? Does that make CSR good?"

Then CSR will suddenly be considered good as everyone starts commenting on how you just need to spend some time with it to get the best results from it.

I seriously think CSR is excellent and it will be nice to see it get the cred it deserves.

[dimitris108]

I have been testing almost all reverbs on the market these past days I am telling you Lexicon Plugins it is the best but overpriced of course.
Everything else sound muddy to me compare to Lexicon.

[susiwong]

My guess is that upon release people are going to love this, call it one of the best plugin reverbs ever, and then say to themselves, "wait, the guy who made LX480 also made CSR? Does that make CSR good?"

Then CSR will suddenly be considered good as everyone starts commenting on how you just need to spend some time with it to get the best results from it.

I seriously think CSR is excellent and it will be nice to see it get the cred it deserves.

Afaik CSR is "based on" the PCM90, a completely different animal from the big Lexicons.
And then, even my humble MPX-1 beats CSR hands down sonically.
CSR is not bad, especially considering its age, and it's a lot more convenient than external hardware, definitely useable for a decent mix, but a 480 or 96 it ain't and never claimed to be.
And re the native Lexicon plugs, think about Lexicon's horrible track record with computer products for a moment , those guys love 19" stuff, the plugins are merely an unloved afterthought as a good part of their customer base (most of the low to mid level studios) is in danger of not even considering Lexicon hardware any more.
No way am I going to risk big money on a gamble like that.
A s/h 300 for example or a reasonably priced plugin by a dedicated software company - that might be a different story.
Ymmv,
susiwong

[Warp69]

And re the native Lexicon plugs, think about Lexicon's horrible track record with computer products for a moment , those guys love 19" stuff, the plugins are merely an unloved afterthought as a good part of their customer base (most of the low to mid level studios) is in danger of not even considering Lexicon hardware any more.

I think Lexicon have shifted focus with the release of PCM Native. The Native version includes an algorithm (Vintage Plate) not present on the PCM96 hardware. I think that Lexicon will sell more PCM Native than PCM96 and PCM92 combined.

[SWAN808]

I thought so too, but now I'm really waiting for the Relab 480 plugin first. I may miss especially the Chamber reverb from the Lexicon bundle, but since it seems that the Relab plugin really nails the 480 sound (Casey from Bricasti really didn't just say that ), I think I'll manage with it and I'm definitely waiting to test it first.

Im not really sure we can get too excited over the LX480 just yet - despite the encouraging signs so far it is really not clear - how long did Casey test it? and only 1 long tail Random Hall example-not exactly concrete...
I really hope the LX480 is a true high end reverb - but Ive got excited over plugins before and more often than not - been disappointed.
But here's to hoping and looking forward to the demo....

[Shy]

That's true, though I tend to think that since the Random Hall (which no one else has managed to emulate until now) characteristics are all extremely similar to Lexicon's (and it's especially easy to analyze when the decay is so long), other algorithms are gonna be accurate as well. We'll wait and hear, and I am usually far from optimistic, but this time I am.

[Warp69]

I used a snare drum as source instead of something like vocals or sustained synth notes since it much easier to pick out early reflection and frequency response. It was absolutely not my intention to make an exciting/musical test.

I don't have a Lexicon 960L nor the PCM96, but the PCM Native doesn't sound like the Lexicon 480L(or any of my other Lexicon reverbs) at all - I was quite surprised. It's colouring the signal like none (Lexicon or non-Lexicon) of my reverbs. The LX480 will sound different compared to the PCM Native.

[valhallasound]

I don't have a Lexicon 960L nor the PCM96, but the PCM Native doesn't sound like the Lexicon 480L(or any of my other Lexicon reverbs) at all - I was quite surprised. It's colouring the signal like none (Lexicon or non-Lexicon) of my reverbs. The LX480 will sound different compared to the PCM Native.

The PCM96 is using some new, patented techniques in many of its algorithms, designed to improve the "bunching-up" of the group delay that happens with standard allpass based reverberators. Casey has pointed out that these techniques may work in the long term (i.e. over the course of the reverberation decay), but in the short term they lead to more frequency coloration, as they have a non-allpass frequency response. So this might be what you were hearing in the PCM algorithm. I haven't tested it yet - I'm waiting for the initial bugs to be sorted out, plus I have my own projects to work on.

Sean Costello

[BFunKu]

How about the TC M30 Reverb? It's Damn Great!

[dimitris108]

Compare to what?

[Mister Gibson]

Compare to what?

TC Native Reverb VST

[sounddesigner]

I have been testing almost all reverbs on the market these past days I am telling you Lexicon Plugins it is the best but overpriced of course.
Everything else sound muddy to me compare to Lexicon.

I found the Lexicon plugins to be too far out my budget range (but i don't doubt they're worth their price), plus i'm allergic to ilok/SS dongles. I did try the Empty 250 reverb recently and found it to be excellent. It may not be a verb for your arsenal but the Empty 250 is definitely worth demoing and checking out if you have not already - http://emptyroomsystems.com/index.php/

[froombosch]

I have been testing almost all reverbs on the market these past days I am telling you Lexicon Plugins it is the best but overpriced of course.
Everything else sound muddy to me compare to Lexicon.

I found the Lexicon plugins to be too far out my budget range (but i don't doubt they're worth their price), plus i'm allergic to ilok/SS dongles. I did try the Empty 250 reverb recently and found it to be excellent. It may not be a verb for your arsenal but the Empty 250 is definitely worth demoing and checking out if you have not already - http://emptyroomsystems.com/index.php/

Thank you sounddesigner!

[acoosticzoo]

I'm a big fan and I love them both. Lexicon has a def sound that feels right in a dense mix. You don't hear the reverb, but you miss it when it's bypassed. VSS3 has an awesome ER and the tail is lush and not ringy.

Both Lexicon and vss3 complement each other perfectly.

I'm waiting for the day VSS3 becomes True Native and not have a huge powercore dongle.

Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer

[zoot_rollo]

PCM Native Reverb Bundle now at $ 234.87

good deal?

still a valid reverb when SO many others are out there since its release?