Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2251 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Post Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:48 pm

DJMaytag wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:08 am
I got a reply of “it’s up to the VST to report the delay” and basically “sorry, not our problem.”

I did follow up and ask how Reason handles real-time (which works fine) versus render (where the problem appears). Clearly there is a problem when rendering, so either Reason doesn’t “tell” VST’s that rendering is happening, or The Glue isn’t somehow reporting the increased latency in render mode.

Whatever the case may be, the recommendation might be to use the same real-time and render oversampling setting to avoid this problem in Reason (I’m on 10.2, but I assume 9.5 and above have the same issue).
The Glue shows exactly what latency is reported and introduced in the oversampling menu, and this does not change when switching from realtime to render mode, or when bypassing, it always stays the same.

There is an advanced feature in Cytomic plugins where you can disable this default behaviour of keeping the latency constant. It is in the Settings.xml file:

<Tuple Key="ForceDynamicLatency" Value="false"/>

This defaults to false, since otherwise it can cause issues with some hosts. Can you please confirm you haven't opened up a text editor and changed this to "true" ?

I have tested the crap out of latency compensation and reporting. I am not trying to pass the buck, but I doubt very much the issue lies with The Glue, this code has been in place for 10 years or so, and Reason has not been hosting VST plugins for very long. What I can do is give you a build of The Glue with debug logging enabled, which will write to a file when it reports latency changes to the host. We can then confirm exactly the latency, and when (with timestamps) the latency is reported with each instance of The Glue. Once we see that The Glue does not dynamically change the latency once reported we can, with complete confidence, contact the Propellerheads and get them to look at it themselves. You will most likely need to give them a cut down example project so they can reproduce the issue, I can give them a license of The Glue with debug logging enabled as well.

ps: I remember a similar issue with Sonar, where I told them they were sending double precision numbers to the sidechain input of VST plugins that reported they only wanted single precision numbers, and so caused The Glue to crash. Cakewalk denied the issue black and blue until years later they finally found out they were doing exactly what I guessed, and then they finally apologised and fixed it. I happily gave my customer a refund because of Cakewalk's bug, and I will happily give you a refund too if you want, since I can't fix bugs in hosts.
Last edited by andy-cytomic on Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

DJMaytag
KVRist
416 posts since 15 Dec, 2012 from Waunakee, Wiscompton

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:55 pm

Yeah, that would be interesting to test that out. There’s definitely something odd going on, as I tried exporting to a 44.1khz/24-bit Audio file with real-time and render set to 1x, and that has been by far the best quality audio of any export thus far. Even with both set to 2x, rendering to 88.2/24 doesn’t sound right.
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User avatar
andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2251 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:59 pm

DJMaytag wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:55 pm
Yeah, that would be interesting to test that out. There’s definitely something odd going on, as I tried exporting to a 44.1khz/24-bit Audio file with real-time and render set to 1x, and that has been by far the best quality audio of any export thus far. Even with both set to 2x, rendering to 88.2/24 doesn’t sound right.
With both realtime and render set to x1 there is no latency. This is probably why their latency compensation sounds good, there is none to do!
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

User avatar
andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2251 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:42 pm

Things are coming together really well with the new fixed cpu PDK solver in The Scream. I still have to add a few more parts to the model, but what I've already done is production ready, fast, and super accurate to full MNA solving. This is great news since the same methods can be applied to all circuit solving including an update for The Glue :)
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

meloco_go
KVRian
690 posts since 21 Sep, 2008

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:27 am

andy-cytomic wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:42 pm
Things are coming together really well with the new fixed cpu PDK solver in The Scream. I still have to add a few more parts to the model, but what I've already done is production ready, fast, and super accurate to full MNA solving. This is great news since the same methods can be applied to all circuit solving including an update for The Glue :)
Great news!

User avatar
Tp3
KVRAF
2141 posts since 8 Feb, 2007

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:30 am

Any news ?
Professional technicians are assessed by the abilities they possess.
Amateur technicians are assessed by the tools they possess - and the amount of those tools, with an obvious preference to the latest hyped ones.
(Gabe Dumbbell)

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masterhiggins
KVRAF
2102 posts since 31 Dec, 2004 from People's Republic of Minnesota

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:57 am

We need a Cytomic alternative to FXpansion’s chancomp now that they discontinued their dcam dynamics bundle. The variable capacitor feature made it the most useful 1176 I’ve used so far. :(

HcDoom
KVRian
1081 posts since 18 Feb, 2012

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:49 am

Cant wait for The Glue HD update...Andy, we need a glue hd shot, now... :P :D

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
6650 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:00 am

HcDoom wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:49 am
Cant wait for The Glue HD update...Andy, we need a glue hd shot, now... :P :D
I believe step 1 is the 1.0 release of The Scream, which hasn't happened yet, so I'd guess there's some time before the HD mode will be ready.

User avatar
andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2251 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:53 pm

masterhiggins wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:57 am
We need a Cytomic alternative to FXpansion’s chancomp now that they discontinued their dcam dynamics bundle. The variable capacitor feature made it the most useful 1176 I’ve used so far. :(
Well good news is that a Cytomic 1176 is on the way. I did the original ChanComp for FXpansion a long time ago and remember it was a very difficult circuit to model accurately so I had to make a lot of simplifications and I wasn't that happy with the results, but it was the best I could do at the time and it does do useful things.

I've improved my circuit modelling skills a lot since then and can assure you that the new one will be much better than my original attempt. I'll make sure to include the "q-bias adjust" trimpot control from the circuit, which isn't actually anything to do with capacitors!
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

User avatar
andy-cytomic
KVRAF
2251 posts since 3 Dec, 2008

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:02 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:00 am
HcDoom wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:49 am
Cant wait for The Glue HD update...Andy, we need a glue hd shot, now... :P :D
I believe step 1 is the 1.0 release of The Scream, which hasn't happened yet, so I'd guess there's some time before the HD mode will be ready.
Yep, I'm still finishing up The Scream, but things are looking good for a release of The Scream in the second half of Q1.

After that is done then its time to do a Glue MD and HD mode, and hopefully a VST3 update as well. The Glue MD will be the same as the current Glue, but with lower peak CPU. I'll also add the stepped switch between dual mono and stereo blend :) So all up it will be a pretty big update. With my current Scream results I'm also very hopeful I'll be able to add optional input / output buffer modelling in both MD and HD modes, so you'll be able to get some subtle stereo warming even when in MD mode, but still with very low cpu.

Once I've got enough input and output stages modelled of different devices I'll be keen to get them all into a single product for bus warming.
The Glue, The Drop - www.cytomic.com

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Tp3
KVRAF
2141 posts since 8 Feb, 2007

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:09 pm

andy-cytomic wrote:Once I've got enough input and output stages modelled of different devices I'll be keen to get them all into a single product for bus warming.
Hopefully in 2019... :ud:
Professional technicians are assessed by the abilities they possess.
Amateur technicians are assessed by the tools they possess - and the amount of those tools, with an obvious preference to the latest hyped ones.
(Gabe Dumbbell)

HcDoom
KVRian
1081 posts since 18 Feb, 2012

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:33 am

The Glue HD and Cytomic 1176...wow...I hope this will happen in Q1-Q2 2019!!! Cant wait!!!

sleepcircle
KVRian
694 posts since 28 Nov, 2016

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:53 am

i've never bought any other 1176 plugins cause i've never really loved the sound of them, but a cytomic 1176 would be an autobuy for me, if it's up to the standards of the glue.

User avatar
mrj1nx
KVRian
629 posts since 29 Nov, 2015

Re: Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

Post Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:55 am

A Cytomic 1176?? Nice! :o (I also don't have a 3rd party one yet so that will be perfect!) I'd just like to put a little vote (my 2 cents) to pause everything and make that new synth first :pray: :lol:

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