2CAudio Precedence

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
woggle
KVRAF
2151 posts since 24 Nov, 2012

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:15 am

jens wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:13 am
woggle wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:37 pm
I'm not getting great depth impressions from Precedence - am I missing something in the settings?
What? It's breathtaking!
just not feeling it - but i dont have Breeze and that seems to be essential

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sqigls
KVRAF
3370 posts since 25 Dec, 2004 from Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:23 am

yeah i don't think it's really a WOW effect unless you're a bit of a chinstroker perhaps...
this morning i was fuffing around with it and Breeze2, it was quite something, but it's like... how would you say... possibly more evident as a cumulative effect in a composition etc... not sure. i guess in the coming days there will be more coming to light, but i'm sure there are gonna be some composers out there who are salivating over this one.
Will be interesting to hear what people can get out of it.

hang on...
you don't own Breeze!?
fark in ell mayt
get on it

woggle
KVRAF
2151 posts since 24 Nov, 2012

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:26 am

sqigls wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:23 am
yeah i don't think it's really a WOW effect unless you're a bit of a chinstroker perhaps...
this morning i was fuffing around with it and Breeze2, it was quite something, but it's like... how would you say... possibly more evident as a cumulative effect in a composition etc... not sure. i guess in the coming days there will be more coming to light, but i'm sure there are gonna be some composers out there who are salivating over this one.
Will be interesting to hear what people can get out of it.

hang on...
you don't own Breeze!?
fark in ell mayt
get on it
:) I have plenty of reverbs already - was tempted but I am more in the group of "should sell about half what I have" than "must buy else cannot make good sound"

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sqigls
KVRAF
3370 posts since 25 Dec, 2004 from Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:29 am

i'm definitely in the "sell the flipping lot except for two things you cannot be without" group.

Life's too short to not have plugins you daydream about using while you're busy working to pay for them.

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29992 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:38 am

Andrew Souter wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:15 pm
aMUSEd wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:32 pm
So do you insert it before or after the reverb?
A good little pneumonic:

PREcedence

(although I like to think pronunciation sounds more like "preh-ceh-dense" than "prEE-cEED-ance" but I'm American, and I think maybe the Brits say the second?)
This is what Precedence achieves for you. Precedence precedes all of your other spatial tools. Precedence comes first in your spatial processing chain. Precedence will impeccably position your source sound laterally left-to-right controlling its azimuth angle using techniques that will work perfectly with all reverbs that follow it without creating unwanted side effects. Precedence will also pre-condition the direct sound to give it an instant sense of audio source width and spatial impression, similar to what early reflections are typically used for and will do so in a variable manner that embeds distance cues into the direct sound itself.
Of course this is the "proper" way to use it for realistic positioning goals. Using it after other spatial tools such as reverb, delay, etc, is not "correct" per-say, but sometimes "wrong" is cool for creative FX. For things like synths that are not particularly natural to begin with, there are less rules.
aMUSEd wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:55 pm
Also is the P-Link the chain button under PD Adjust? - some tooltips of proper labels would help
Yup. Link icon (like a "chain link") (like in Aether), next to the word "Link" is P-Link.
Thanks - how about tooltips then for buttons without labels (or just write P-Link instead of Link)

jbraner
KVRian
812 posts since 8 Jan, 2003

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:37 am

I haven't fired this up yet (but I can't imagine why I wouldn't buy it, as I already have Perfect Storm 3.0) but is this meant to take the place of "pan" controls on tracks?
In other words - pan everything (using precedence/breeze 2) at center - and use Precedence to place things L or R (as well as depth)?
Sorry - I *will* fire it up in a day or two, I'm just getting my head around what to expect...

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29992 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:39 am

jbraner wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:37 am
I haven't fired this up yet (but I can't imagine why I wouldn't buy it, as I already have Perfect Storm 3.0) but is this meant to take the place of "pan" controls on tracks?
In other words - pan everything (using precedence/breeze 2) at center - and use Precedence to place things L or R (as well as depth)?
Sorry - I *will* fire it up in a day or two, I'm just getting my head around what to expect...
I assumed it would but since you can't automate it to pan in realtime without crackles at the moment there are limitations.

jbraner
KVRian
812 posts since 8 Jan, 2003

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:43 am

I assumed it would but since you can't automate it to pan in realtime without crackles at the moment there are limitations.
Sure - but without automating, we'd still use it to "place" (albeit without moving) L or R - right?

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29992 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:00 am

jbraner wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:43 am
I assumed it would but since you can't automate it to pan in realtime without crackles at the moment there are limitations.
Sure - but without automating, we'd still use it to "place" (albeit without moving) L or R - right?
Yes of course, just that many people (including me) like to make sounds move in space.

jens
KVRAF
18923 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:05 am

woggle wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:15 am
just not feeling it - but i dont have Breeze and that seems to be essential
hm.. what sources did you try it on and what did you expect?

I have Breeze 2.1, but I first tried it without and got fantastic results.

It's however not great in providing "larger that live" results, so if you'd expect these, you would probably end up disappointed. I think it's doing exactly what it says on the tin - and that is creating a highly realistic yet artifical image around the source material, which is something even the best conventional reverb can not provide all by itself.
I remember back in the day being stunned by Silverspike Room Machine 844, which I guess in some way or the other was doing something similar. It sucked at being a reverb but it was fantastic in providing a seemingly realistic space around the source, then you could add a normal reverb after that - you just would use less of that than you would have without RM 844.

And the Precendence/Breeze combo is able to get this amount right automatically for you, which is - as far as I see it - the main advantage of that combo - in other words: you can use any other reverb instead of it, you just have to fiddle a bit with the wet/dry ratio.


Andy, please go ahead and correct me if I wrote something stupid here. :-)
" It is a measurable fact. Not my opinion. And not even subtle. If you can't hear difference in tail between Valhalla and VSR reverb tail then again change your job dude." kmonkey

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
29992 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:11 am

If there was a surround version of this could it be used to add surround capability to the other reverbs?

jens
KVRAF
18923 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:22 am

I don't see a way how it possibly could - it does not host other plugins.
" It is a measurable fact. Not my opinion. And not even subtle. If you can't hear difference in tail between Valhalla and VSR reverb tail then again change your job dude." kmonkey

jens
KVRAF
18923 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:28 am

Here's a procedure which I think will help testing it with other reverb plugins:

- Use an existing track that has already reverb on it you are satisfied with.
- disable it and load Precedence before it: Find a setting for Precedence that sounds good, realistic and natural to you (i.e. nothing over the top). Perhaps try some of the presets for this.
- now enable the reverb plugin and start to slowly reducing its amount while keeping to disable/enable Precedence until disabling it suddenly makes the source sound poor, dull and lifeless - et voilá.

Disclaimer: this worked well for me, but I basically only use real instruments so I can't say how good that works with artificial sources.
" It is a measurable fact. Not my opinion. And not even subtle. If you can't hear difference in tail between Valhalla and VSR reverb tail then again change your job dude." kmonkey

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cturner
KVRist
360 posts since 7 Dec, 2009 from GWB

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:32 am

Okay, so I get the notion that P-link should be switched on in Breeze 2.1, and that Precedence and Breeze need to have the same distance setting for optimal stereo positioning. I don't do orchestral mixing, but this seems to imply that you can't have multiple instances of Precedence, each with their own distance setting, running into a single instance of Breeze. In other words, the sort of standard "rule" about multiple tracks with sends into a single reverb "space" is not what's called for. It sounds as if one is expected to have an instance of both Breeze and Precedence on each track.

That's fair enough, and I've noted but haven't studied the statement that "loudness" isn't processed, so that track faders might still perform their normal function. But even if the Precedence/Breeze pair doesn't have to be post-fader, what of other effects, both on the track and on group/mix busses? It really sounds like Precednce/Breeze wants to be the last thing on a track before summing, with as little as possible in between. Is this the ideal?
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jens
KVRAF
18923 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: 2CAudio Precedence

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:46 am

No, you can use it with any other mixture of reverb(s).
" It is a measurable fact. Not my opinion. And not even subtle. If you can't hear difference in tail between Valhalla and VSR reverb tail then again change your job dude." kmonkey

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