crusher-X 8 & Eurorack talk

[freq]

crusher-X 8 asked for landing permission - we're awaiting the beast in the next days!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXS9r00KJSA

Already heard about the new Grain Controlled Oscillators (GCOs)? Read more about the crusher-X 8 features here.

Preorder crusher-X 8 and get an extra license crusher-X 75 for free!

Best
accSone

[dayjob]

upgrade looks great but at this price/rate of paid updates i'll probably wait until next month when version 9 comes out

though the grain oscillators sounds fascinating.

[jwise]

I too had to take a look at the time between full paid for updates and sure enough, it was a bit more than a year ago but it does feel aggressive. I don't mean to downplay the new feature but it seems like we are mostly seeing GCO's as the main reason to update.

I'm considering waiting for version 9 as nearly $100 a year to maintain this plugin is starting to get expensive. Though I'd like to emphasize that I'm absolutely in LOVE with Crusher-X and wish it were a Eurorack module!

[dayjob]

I too had to take a look at the time between full paid for updates and sure enough, it was a bit more than a year ago but it does feel aggressive. I don't mean to downplay the new feature but it seems like we are mostly seeing GCO's as the main reason to update.

I'm considering waiting for version 9 as nearly $100 a year to maintain this plugin is starting to get expensive. Though I'd like to emphasize that I'm absolutely in LOVE with Crusher-X and wish it were a Eurorack module!

it's a great plug in. no doubt. but i need to live w/in my means and weigh the amount of use a thing gets vs the cost of the thing.

a eurorack module of crusher-x would have to be huge and it'd cost many thousands of dollars... not to mention it wouldn't be nearly as profitable for the developer as the software. eurorack margins are slim and the market is small compared to software..

though you could probably whip up something w/reaktor/max-for-live etc and integrate it pretty tightly w/a eurorack system using the coming live CV tools or expert sleepers hardware etc.

[jwise]

I have an ES-8 that I interface between my Eurorack and DAW. I run Crusher-X in Bitwig and have no problem playing with Crusher-X using this method but having knobs and CV to modulate stuff without turning to my DAW would be amazing.

Regarding the cost I'm guessing you may not be familiar with Eurorack which costs about $20 per HP and I'm guessing Crusher-X might require about 26HP which is what Panharmonium uses and it costs $499. While it's a resynthesizer and not strictly speaking doing what Crusher-X does, it is using many grains to "resynthesize" a signal coming into it.

[dayjob]

I have an ES-8 that I interface between my Eurorack and DAW. I run Crusher-X in Bitwig and have no problem playing with Crusher-X using this method but having knobs and CV to modulate stuff without turning to my DAW would be amazing.

Regarding the cost I'm guessing you may not be familiar with Eurorack which costs about $20 per HP and I'm guessing Crusher-X might require about 26HP which is what Panharmonium uses and it costs $499. While it's a resynthesizer and not strictly speaking doing what Crusher-X does, it is using many grains to "resynthesize" a signal coming into it.

i just mean w/all the controls and options that crusher-x has a hardware version would require some quite intense user interface design to make it not be a total nightmare to use. that's just my 2 cents. i get really slowed down by dense interfaces in eurorack. i can only put up w/a couple modules in my system that require that intense level of programming. i much prefer one knob per function and maybe some layering and shift button functionality. some people implement that kind of thing well and some not so much. it's a real fine line between "should just use the computer" and "hey this is the right balance i'm glad it exists in hardware"

that being said... the margins still are pretty slim in eurorack. a module version of crusher-x would take a year or more to develop and test and all that probably not be worth the time that could've been spent developing the software.

there's a reason dave smith makes stand alone products and only has a few modules. if you saw the first issue of Waveform magazine.. his interview spells it out.

[freq]

Hi,

actually we started some investigations in the last year to port crusher-X to hardware. We were able to run crusher-X on Raspberry PI headless and map the Adore parameters (the crusher-X meta parameter) to a set of rotary encoders. This needs knob encoder add-ons and USB audio interfaces (HATs) though. But calculating the business incl. development, delivery, logistics and support was disillusioning...

What probably could make more sense is to look out for existing raspberry Pi audio ready hardware stacks or support an open source development initiative and expand the crusher-X license with a specific port to that hardware. Any ideas/hints welcome!

Best
accSone

[dayjob]

Hi,

actually we started some investigations in the last year to port crusher-X to hardware. We were able to run crusher-X on Raspberry PI headless and map the Adore parameters (the crusher-X meta parameter) to a set of rotary encoders. This needs knob encoder add-ons and USB audio interfaces (HATs) though. But calculating the business incl. development, delivery, logistics and support was disillusioning...

What probably could make more sense is to look out for existing raspberry Pi audio ready hardware stacks or support an open source development initiative and expand the crusher-X license with a specific port to that hardware. Any ideas/hints welcome!

Best
accSone

you might be able to partner with an existing eurorack manufacturer. there are various hardware platforms that are open source and a few arduino things.

there are a couple granular processors in eurorack and a couple more coming soon. the Instruo granular module looks pretty great w/a unique user interface. not released yet though. Industrial Music Electronics is apparently working on a granular device that is probably a ways away.

existing things are the nebulae 2 by Qu-bit, the discontinued Mutable Clouds (in many iterations both small and large due to its open source code).. can't think of anything else just now.

but if you want to chase down some options i'd tap into the open source diy market and see what people are up to. there may be something you can adapt. there's a diy forum at muffwiggler and various github and facebook groups and what not.

[Sampleconstruct]

Some videos I made with the crusherX 8 Beta version, all of these patches involve the new GCO oscillators:

https://youtu.be/-TTNNAzkTY4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMbAUasAMbc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOYANG0axQo

[BeeDog]

Went to the preorder site to see if 7.5 users such as me get a discount compared to those upgrading from older versions. Since it's not the case, will wait or skip this version. No clear point in staying up-to-date, since it just costs more in the long run.

[pekbro]

What probably could make more sense is to look out for existing raspberry Pi audio ready hardware stacks or support an open source development initiative and expand the crusher-X license with a specific port to that hardware. Any ideas/hints welcome!

Best
accSone

Seems like software would be the most practical solution for Eurorack...

Maybe have a look at Z-DSP from TipTop Audio, http://tiptopaudio.com/zdsp-ns/

There are a couple other platforms, these are pretty high-end though.

Orthogonal Devices ER-301 http://www.orthogonaldevices.com/er-301

Percussa SSP https://www.percussa.com/super-signal-processor/

[dayjob]

What probably could make more sense is to look out for existing raspberry Pi audio ready hardware stacks or support an open source development initiative and expand the crusher-X license with a specific port to that hardware. Any ideas/hints welcome!

Best
accSone

Seems like software would be the most practical solution for Eurorack...

Maybe have a look at Z-DSP from TipTop Audio, http://tiptopaudio.com/zdsp-ns/

There are a couple other platforms, these are pretty high-end though.

Orthogonal Devices ER-301 http://www.orthogonaldevices.com/er-301

Percussa SSP https://www.percussa.com/super-signal-processor/

there's no way a Zdsp can do granular in a way that crusher-x does. it's an old chip. it's the Spin chip which is in a bunch of things like old alesis reverbs. there's a granular card for the Zdsp and it's good for what it is but you only get 3 parameters of any algorithm to control/edit. there's feedback and some other CV control but imo it's not the platform for a fully fledged granular module.

the percussa is very powerful and is essentially a modular in a module.

the er-301 is a deep sound computer. it can do a lot. but it's not open source in any way. would probably be interesting research though. orthogonal devices is a one person shop which is mind blowing when you look at the quality of things he makes. the 301 interface is quite brilliant by any standard.

[pekbro]

What probably could make more sense is to look out for existing raspberry Pi audio ready hardware stacks or support an open source development initiative and expand the crusher-X license with a specific port to that hardware. Any ideas/hints welcome!

Best
accSone

Seems like software would be the most practical solution for Eurorack...

Maybe have a look at Z-DSP from TipTop Audio, http://tiptopaudio.com/zdsp-ns/

There are a couple other platforms, these are pretty high-end though.

Orthogonal Devices ER-301 http://www.orthogonaldevices.com/er-301

Percussa SSP https://www.percussa.com/super-signal-processor/

there's no way a Zdsp can do granular in a way that crusher-x does. it's an old chip. it's the Spin chip which is in a bunch of things like old alesis reverbs. there's a granular card for the Zdsp and it's good for what it is but you only get 3 parameters of any algorithm to control/edit. there's feedback and some other CV control but imo it's not the platform for a fully fledged granular module.

the percussa is very powerful and is essentially a modular in a module.

the er-301 is a deep sound computer. it can do a lot. but it's not open source in any way. would probably be interesting research though. orthogonal devices is a one person shop which is mind blowing when you look at the quality of things he makes. the 301 interface is quite brilliant by any standard.

Cool, I don't have any of them currently, but I am leaning towards the percussa SSP actually.

[dayjob]

^^^ SSP is way deep but is essentially a modular in a modular. the interface looks slow to me but seems really powerful. i have 2 Zdsps that i've had for a long time and the algorithms available are really really good... but the granular card for it is quite simple but has it's place.

percussa did a kick starter a while back that failed. they were going to make a micro version of the SSP and part of that was going to be a software editor. that would've been a game changer imo. i was bummed when the kickstarter goal wasnt reached

oh the other granular device is the makenoise morphagene which looks really fun.

[dayjob]

Went to the preorder site to see if 7.5 users such as me get a discount compared to those upgrading from older versions. Since it's not the case, will wait or skip this version. No clear point in staying up-to-date, since it just costs more in the long run.

pretty much in the same boat. the demos sound great and there's a bunch of new features but time flies.