KVR Audio

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:44 am

That's surprising, considering we talk about a non physical product here, only a license code and a digital download. PayPal doesn't usually cover this - but since it was on Ebay, I guess they made the exception.

Novalis · Post by **Novalis** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:06 pm

Could somebody please explain it clearly to me:

Since most of the deals here (software) are not covered by the PayPal protection anyway, what exactly is the problem with the gift option?

You are not protected either way, as far as I understand.

Loki Fuego · Post by **Loki Fuego** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:37 pm

Even if your payment is not eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection, you can file a Dispute and try to resolve the issue directly with the Seller; however, PayPal will generally not find in your favor if you escalate a Dispute to a Claim for an item which is not eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection.

If you have a serious problem and very persuasive you will get refund from Paypal. But you won't have any chance if you try to dispute a gift.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:05 pm

Novalis wrote:Since most of the deals here (software) are not covered by the PayPal protection anyway, what exactly is the problem with the gift option?

You are not protected either way, as far as I understand.

The thing is, that you evade the system in order to save money, or get some more money. Paypal is living off of the transactions that are done. And that are usually the amount I posted on the first page.

Now, if you'd only go for gift, and you happen to be in the same country, or a country where exchange fees don't apply, then you do not(!) pay PayPal a small fee to keep the system running. Neither are you save should anything happen in the sale.

PayPal needs to overhaul their system to also cover software goods - we all can agree on that. But if you want to save money, there are plenty of alternatives - inlcuding (but not limited to) SEPA, Western Union, etc.

Novalis · Post by **Novalis** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:59 pm

So you are just worried about PayPal's profits, basically.
Sorry if that leaves me quite indifferent.

I can assure you they are doing more than fine.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:56 pm

You should read the comments by whyterabbyt again, and general comments by the userbase regarding the "gift option".

Again, if you want to save funds - go other routes. If you want to at least have "some chance" to get a scam be sorted - use PayPal or any other system to your liking.

Personaly I'm against using "GIFT" - and it's not available in Germany anymore anyway.

paterpeter · Post by **paterpeter** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:26 am

I have once filed a dispute because I bought (not on kvr) a game key that wasn't meant for my region, even though it was advertised as such. I got my money back from PayPal. So don't rely on software=no disputes.

I'd recommend not to use the gift option to have at least a chance to get help in case something guess wrong.

Novalis · Post by **Novalis** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:46 pm

That is fine if you decide not to use the gift option, but why force others not to use it.
Let everybody decide by themselves, and also bear the consequences themselves.

Personally I think the PayPal fees are just ridiculous, as are the ebay fees by now.
I tried to avoid both whenever I can.

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:09 pm

Same thing here, i usually do not sell if its not Gift or a written email by the buyer that he will not raise some problems and the sell will be final (of course after he establishes with me that THAT is what he wants to buy). I know a lot of scums will buy Sounds and then complain to PP but keep the Sounds for free. I sell to few selected people, most of my customers are already established with me and EX Customers so in most cases i am safe. Of course Gift should not be used just with anyone but with an established person is different. You can not just see someone on craiglist and use Gift but here we know each other. The other option is, instead of charge for services use a Donate transaction button.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:11 pm

Again:
- ignoring of TOS
- system can't be paid off otherwise
- you loose security measurements
- GIFT is not available in all countries (see list on page 1)

It's just not good ethics.

Novalis · Post by **Novalis** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:29 pm

Rich musicians aren't giving poor bankers enough money...

Bad boys.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:45 pm

Novalis wrote:Rich musicians aren't giving poor bankers enough money...

Bad boys.

PayPal isn't a bank. It's a money transfer service.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:21 pm

Er... half... in Germany it is "somewhat" declared as a bank. Only that you don't open an account in "traditional ways".

It's primarily still a money transfer service, but the possibility to store money also makes it a credit institute. Which is the very reason why every transaction in Germany is listed/synced with the SCHUFA score.

Ryan99 · Post by **Ryan99** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:40 pm

I don't understand all the whining. Paypal is a business and offers a service. If you're not happy with the fees or their way of working, you just have to use another method of payment. Me, I pay with Paypal because as a buyer, I know I have some kind of protection. I'm not willing to give it up because the seller doesn't want to pay the fees. The seller can adjust his price by including the fees in his price.

Novalis · Post by **Novalis** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:41 pm

PayPal isn't a bank.

Of course it is a bank.
It needs and has a bank license in every country it operates.

And it also behaves as a bank, by sucking as much money out of customers as they possibly can.

PayPal and the GIFT option for international users (19 EU / 6 International countries atm)