64 bit SF2 player (SFZ alternative)

[rasmusklump]

So much nonsense in a single post.....

PDC plug delay compensation works very poorely and does not work on most old 32-bit vsts including genwave eq. There is some voxengo plugin promised to fix the problem of vsts not reporting latency to pdc host's feature and yet that plugin is totally crap and does not work. Ddmf metaplugin also fails. Asio4all fails, etc. All this pdc is more a theoretical thing than working solution to keep ignorant users calm. Secondly pdc does not correct midi input latency, it kind of tries to compensate only playback.
Whatever causes the delay emulation or not but I insist on not using bridges and search for articles yourself. It helped me greatly. Now I am restructuring my workflow for 64-bit only. Otherwise your workflow will be very slow. But speed if very important!

THere is little number of sfz libs which renders this format promising but useless and not many people willing to create new sfz libs. Another matter is sf2. Sf2 are usable only for synth sounds. As for kontakt, when you load all into one vst you have less competing processes than using many vsts, there you have smaller latency. Also kontakt use seems to be optimized by daws' manufacturers while other vsts can be even secretely blocked.
Most vsts don't use fft. Fft-based vsts are rare and considered high class. Vstis based on samples do not use any calculation at all and by the way those samples-based 64bit vsts were giving the greatest delay. Some of them even freeze pc for several seconds when you open their gui.
You will find some artictles about setting up windows for realtime audio. They may fail to help you if you are using 32-bit vsts via bridges.

[murnau]

So much nonsense in a single post.....

Unbelievable or? His other postings aren't better.

[solomute]

True. Bridging would be unrelated to optimisation.

That's what i was trying to say. Bridges will cause latency, avoid them...

[solomute]

Plogue's sforzando plays SF2, it's also available as a 64-bit plugin.

It's one of the plugins which loads fonts for ages and also seem to be causing latency delays. I have to use it for one sfz lib that i need. But I am thinking to get rid of it. KOntakt is the only one which is stable and optimized. Tal-sampler distorts sound too much. I have found that bass-midi is the best to host sf2s. Of course I still need tx16wx v1 to check but this is tabu.

[whyterabbyt]

True. Bridging would be unrelated to optimisation.

That's what i was trying to say.

I really suspect not. A specific bridge could be optimised or not optimised or impaired. The mere fact that it is a bridge has no relationship to a given bridge's level of optimisation.

Bridges will cause latency, avoid them...

False, as explained before.

[solomute]

False, as explained before.

Still millions of users moan and plee to the programers "please make a 64 bit version"
If it were false those moans would not exist. From my expeience samplitude's bridge is awful causing unbearable latencies. Better use jbridge and even better no bridges. If you have latencies first try removing all bridges and see if it helps.

[whyterabbyt]

False, as explained before.

Still millions of users moan and plee to the programers "please make a 64 bit version"

Please stick to actual facts, instead of made-up nonsense that relies on exaggeration and misrepresentation of the many reasons people actually seek 64-bit versions of their plugins.

For the record, though, of all the usual reasons that people cite when state that they would rather have a native 64-bit version than use a bridge, it is remarkable that one of the rarest is latency.

If it were false those moans would not exist.

Flawed logic. You're conflating two entirely separate things, please don't do that. Wanting a 64-bit plugin is not inherently associated with bridging, nor any artefact of bridging, nor the specific artefact of bridging you claim it is.

From my experience samplitude's bridge is awful causing unbearable latencies.

Then your system has that problem. But since other people using Samplitude dont have that problem, and people using other bridges do not have that problem, then your claim that this is an issue immutably caused by the use of a bridge is false. End of story.

Better use jbridge and even better no bridges. If you have latencies first try removing all bridges and see if it helps.

Actually, since latency issues have been being reported here for more than 15 years, on a wealth of systems where bridging does not apply, then the rather more common solution of investigating drivers, and buffer settings would make far more sense, and be supported by far more evidence.

[solomute]

For me removing all instances of samplitude's bridge has solved latency problems. Though I must admit that with DP i used several jbridged 32-bit vsts and they seem to not induce additional latencies vs 64-vsts. Perhaps it's samplitude's issue. Still better stick to 64-bit if possible.

As for tx16wx version 1 I have managed to find it. If someone needs,PM me for upload. One thing about tx16wx v1 is that it loads only 3 sf2s from 1000 and with the 997 i get the error invalid format (missing 'list'). So actually tx16wx is not useable unfortunately. I have checked if those sf2s could contain mp3 instead of wavs since mp3s are not supported using sfzed program but they do contain wav inside and not mp3. So what is meat by invalid format and some mystical list i can't even image. The thing is that the sampler is very cool. By sound it beats all those crappy synths that you are given. You load some lousy simple sf2 and get sound of a real hw synth with all saturation and etc. But that error spoils everything. Quality is comparable to tal-sampler but tal can load only 1 sf2 whereas tx16wx a lot.

[Logga]

It's 2019 and this is still relevant for me.

Has there been an attempt to imitate the way SFZ -the plugin- handles SF2 files?
Either with a VSTi that opens SF2 directly or with a converter.

I've tried many and none of them do it exactly like SFZ, there's always something off.

[enroe]

I've tried many and none of them do it exactly like SFZ, there's always something off.

Which samplers have you tried?
And what behaviour are you looking for?

[Logga]

I've tried more than I can remember. Though to be clear, it's not that every conversion gets messed up, just that every converter or plugin messes up some soundfonts. Sometimes it's the attack curve, sometimes it's panning, or something that I can't really describe... but it does not sound the same as in SFZ.

[Melkor]

Quite a few borked sf2 files will "fix themselves" if you import them into ESC and then export them out to sf2 again, under a new name.

[lobanov]

WusikStation (from ver. 9) supports sf2 loading. I have not tested it but it could be useful (taking into account 50-80% OFF).

[dnekm]

When I experimented with making stereo SF2 files I discovered something....

When it comes to tx16wx sf2 files created by taking SFZ files into ESC - and then combining the sf2 instruments and setting the root notes in VSampler created a thing - the loop points were not embedded in the samples but in a, well, text file. So tx16wx would not pick them up....

In the end, you can get perfect mono or stereo sf2 files using ESC to convert SFZ to sf2 instruments, and then use either Viena or Polyphone to make the final sf2 files by hand - adding the instruments one at a time.

sf2 is a valid format, it just needs more instruments that support a stereo implementation.... Someone to build upon what Guenter started, and Tim C - but with stereo.....

[dnekm]

I would love to present a challenge to the community here....

I think it is well known I am on a break due to family health issues...

Give me an instrument that can combine or alternate between two to four samples and give me various options such as lfo controlling envelopes, ADSR and diverse FX and I will make all of my soundsets into SFZ and Stereo SF2.

Just give me something I can work with. We will make an industry standard.

Maybe this is just me being out of working on anything for so long. If you take it that way, feel free to ignore....