When did vinyl stop making sense?

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Dear All,

This is not a thread about whether if CD or vinyl is the best format to reproduce music accurately. That´s already been done way too many times.
Instead, let me throw two statements at you, and if you object against them then tell me why:

1. A recording where one or more tracks were recorded solely using analog equipment from source to master, is more "pure" - at least for the analog part - when recorded onto vinyl, than to CD.
2. A recording where all tracks at some point went through digital equipment, for instance on the mastering limiter, is pointless having recorded onto vinyl, as it will just be a downgrading "special effect".

So let´see what you think about this :)

Next one: If all agreed (I suppose not) to the above, from which year would the market be so overloaded with recordings as defined in statements two that it makes no more sense to buy vinyls from such a "purist" perspective? The first purely digitally recorded album is by Ry Cooder and came out in 78, but I wouldn´t expect that we´d have gone past 90 % till say 1983.
Heck, there can even be digital masters of Beatles records pressed on vinyl that serves no other purpose than giving the listener a nostalgic feeling from the special efx of vinyl.

Again, there can be many reasons to like vinyl, not least the more physical aspect and feeling to it. This is not what I´m trying to discuss here.
Best Regards

Roman Empire

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Roman Empire wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:55 amthe more physical aspect and feeling to it. This is not what I´m trying to discuss here.
However, this is the only reason to like it. The sound quality is inferior to CD, it's a pain in the arse to play, it costs a fortune, the player requires maintenance. And yet... I love it.

It's the only format that returns a sense of occassion to music. I remember being 15 and staying up all night waiting for the new album from a favourite band, I would run to the store and buy it, then have it on loop for the next 6 months. But now we just open iTunes (or whatever) and download the latest album, consume it, and move on.

With vinyl I thumb through my collection, deciding which to play, open the cover to look at the artwork, put it on and drop the needle, then sit on the couch actively listening to it.

TL;DR: To answer your question in the subject line, it hasn't.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

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"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

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Mushy Mushy wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:05 amIt's the only format that returns a sense of occassion to music. I remember being 15 and staying up all night waiting for the new album from a favourite band, I would run to the store and buy it, then have it on loop for the next 6 months. But now we just open iTunes (or whatever) and download the latest album, consume it, and move on.

With vinyl I thumb through my collection, deciding which to play, open the cover to look at the artwork, put it on and drop the needle, then sit on the couch actively listening to it.
Most of your arguments, here, are no less valid for cd's. It's just you're most nostalgic for a period of your life when cd's did not exist. The whole aspect of waiting on new releases, running to the shops, thumbing through a collection, enjoying artwork and sleeve-notes, and sitting down to actively enjoy listening are all things I've done both with vinyl and cd's.

Itunes definitely seems geared towards consumption and listening in a certain manner, but it needn't be. There's nothing to stop you collating artwork, sleeve notes etc in a pdf to enjoy just before putting on your favourite album and sitting on the couch to enjoy it, without ever going near 'shuffle' or a recommended 'mood' playlist :shrug:

It's about moulding the tech experience to your desire, rather than having it curate the experience for you :tu:

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:24 am
Mushy Mushy wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:05 amIt's the only format that returns a sense of occassion to music. I remember being 15 and staying up all night waiting for the new album from a favourite band, I would run to the store and buy it, then have it on loop for the next 6 months. But now we just open iTunes (or whatever) and download the latest album, consume it, and move on.

With vinyl I thumb through my collection, deciding which to play, open the cover to look at the artwork, put it on and drop the needle, then sit on the couch actively listening to it.
Most of your arguments, here, are no less valid for cd's. It's just you're most nostalgic for a period of your life when cd's did not exist. The whole aspect of waiting on new releases, running to the shops, thumbing through a collection, enjoying artwork and sleeve-notes, and sitting down to actively enjoy listening are all things I've done both with vinyl and cd's.

Itunes definitely seems geared towards consumption and listening in a certain manner, but it needn't be. There's nothing to stop you collating artwork, sleeve notes etc in a pdf to enjoy just before putting on your favourite album and sitting on the couch to enjoy it, without ever going near 'shuffle' or a recommended 'mood' playlist :shrug:

It's about moulding the tech experience to your desire, rather than having it curate the experience for you :tu:
My running to the shop comment was based on CD's TBH. The point of that story was the physical connection to the music and it being a sense of occassion.

You're right that technically you can do the same with CD's but I find the length of a CD vs one side of a record a major factor. If you know you need to get up in 20 mins that's no time at all to do something, whereas if you know no action is required from you for 74 minutes it's easy to be distracted.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

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Roman Empire wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:55 am from such a "purist" perspective
Bullshit.

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Roman Empire wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:55 am 1. A recording where one or more tracks were recorded solely using analog equipment from source to master, is more "pure"
That’s complete nonsense. A limitation of vinyl is that the more energy in the low end, the more space the grooves take up.

This led to producers mixing in preparation for mastering i.e. having to manipulate the sound because of a limitation of the format.

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Forgotten wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:01 pm
Roman Empire wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:55 am 1. A recording where one or more tracks were recorded solely using analog equipment from source to master, is more "pure"
That’s complete nonsense. A limitation of vinyl is that the more energy in the low end, the more space the grooves take up.

This led to producers mixing in preparation for mastering i.e. having to manipulate the sound because of a limitation of the format.
Agreed, but we´re not talking about artifacts here, that´s a topic already touched millions of times. The purity I´m talking about is the - almost - endless resolution of analog recordings compared to the x khz / x no. of bits present in the digital domain.
Best Regards

Roman Empire

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perfumer wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:35 am
Roman Empire wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:55 am from such a "purist" perspective
Bullshit.
Thanks for your input. Is your statement based on the meaning of the sentence when considering the quotation marks, and what do you make out of those?
Best Regards

Roman Empire

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Mushy Mushy wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:18 am Alternative answer: 1984
https://www.discogs.com/Talking-Heads-S ... ase/196937
Haha, great answer - cheers :)
Best Regards

Roman Empire

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Roman Empire wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:21 pm Agreed, but we´re not talking about artifacts here, that´s a topic already touched millions of times. The purity I´m talking about is the - almost - endless resolution of analog recordings compared to the x khz / x no. of bits present in the digital domain.
It’s not very pure if you’ve been forced to filter out the low end and artificially boost other frequencies to make up for that loss.

You could argue that CDs are more pure as they don’t have that limitation.

What about 8 track or cassette? Why exclude them from the comparison?

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When will cars with a combustion engine stop making sense ?

When did video tape recorders stop making sense ?

Capitalism requires constant innovation and growth to feed its needs. New technology is not always better - its exiting at first and then everyone starts clamouring for the next new thing.

Later on the old stuff is renamed "vintage" and a new market emerges.

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"the medium is not the message"

attrib : postman pat
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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never

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Mushy Mushy wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:29 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:24 am
Mushy Mushy wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:05 amIt's the only format that returns a sense of occassion to music. I remember being 15 and staying up all night waiting for the new album from a favourite band, I would run to the store and buy it, then have it on loop for the next 6 months. But now we just open iTunes (or whatever) and download the latest album, consume it, and move on.

With vinyl I thumb through my collection, deciding which to play, open the cover to look at the artwork, put it on and drop the needle, then sit on the couch actively listening to it.
Most of your arguments, here, are no less valid for cd's. It's just you're most nostalgic for a period of your life when cd's did not exist. The whole aspect of waiting on new releases, running to the shops, thumbing through a collection, enjoying artwork and sleeve-notes, and sitting down to actively enjoy listening are all things I've done both with vinyl and cd's.

Itunes definitely seems geared towards consumption and listening in a certain manner, but it needn't be. There's nothing to stop you collating artwork, sleeve notes etc in a pdf to enjoy just before putting on your favourite album and sitting on the couch to enjoy it, without ever going near 'shuffle' or a recommended 'mood' playlist :shrug:

It's about moulding the tech experience to your desire, rather than having it curate the experience for you :tu:
My running to the shop comment was based on CD's TBH. The point of that story was the physical connection to the music and it being a sense of occassion.

You're right that technically you can do the same with CD's but I find the length of a CD vs one side of a record a major factor. If you know you need to get up in 20 mins that's no time at all to do something, whereas if you know no action is required from you for 74 minutes it's easy to be distracted.
So! 20-minutes per side, 74 minutes total. We're talking about a double-album, then :tu:

If you can't remain focused till the end of an album, that's not the fault of the medium/media. However, in terms of distraction, there are few things that are going to break the immersive experience more than having to get out of the comfort of one's chair just to flip a record.

But if you really want to re-create such joy, then use a separate media player so you can drag in from folders just the amount of songs that correlated to the amount on each side of the original album. Once those songs have finished, you can get up and drag the files for the following sides. Perhaps you can keep one of those velvety dusting blocks by the side of the computer so you can dust the screen before playing each subsequent 'side' :D

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