No More Excuses...Please Help A Wannabe Songwriter

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.
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Aloysius
KVRAF
24423 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from the Land of Soy

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:01 am

wags writes the songs that make the whole world sing
wags writes the songs of love and special things
wags writes the songs that make the young girls cry
wags writes the songs, wags writes the songs

:singer:
Hi-de-Hi!

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wagtunes
KVRAF
16910 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: No More Excuses...Please Help A Wannabe Songwriter

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:05 am

Aloysius wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:01 am
wags writes the songs that make the whole world sing
wags writes the songs of love and special things
wags writes the songs that make the young girls cry
wags writes the songs, wags writes the songs

:singer:
Might make a good comedy parody record.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
13457 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: No More Excuses...Please Help A Wannabe Songwriter

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:06 am

wagtunes wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:36 am
However, having said that, if I can say to myself "screw the business" and just write this stuff for the love of writing music itself
But I don't think you should say "screw the business", either. That's not what I meant. That smacks of all-or-nothing thinking, where you're either jumping in without preparation, or just saying "f**k it all".

I just think you need to be be more prepared. Whether you agree or not, I don't think this stuff is going to come to you as easily as the pop stuff. And why would it? You've spent years honing that area of composition, but you don't seem to have one piece you'd consider worthy of demonstrating your abilities in this latest venture. Therefore, any failure (Which you seem to be expecting) is far more likely going to be through lack of practise, honing, preparation etc. than it is about this type of composition being impossible for you.

Like I said, it's easy to 'ape' a music style, but I think you need to have more of an understanding, appreciation and respect of the genre before jumping in. Normally, a piece, style, genre etc. is more than the sum of it's parts. You might try to analyse a piece, break it down into it's elements etc. but completely miss the essence of what the music is supposed to be saying.

Think of your own experience with trying to write Trance or even when you try to critique genres such as Techno, or Ambient. After a quick analysis, you might come away thinking you have it 'down', because 'four-on-the-floor'. However, you miss how these forms of music or meant to be played and heard i.e not via your crystal-set :wink: Add to that, not understanding why some music has no need for melody, why an intro to a two-minute piece of music can indeed be 80 seconds long, and so quiet you can barely pick it out. It's clear that you view mostly, consciously or subconsciously, from the perspective of short-form pop, and rock. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think it does colour your perception when it comes to other genres.

Also, and you may not remember this, but back in the Vocaloid days you used to get pretty agitated when folk would suggest you concentrate on instrumental music instead. It might be a subconscious block for you, still. However, it is definitely a different discipline. (I know you know this, as you do have a background in classical music). Maybe suddenly not having the lyrics to convey a narrative, and to build a narrative around, is something that will take time to get re-acquainted with; Certainly, the suggestion to write to video to help the narrative seems sage (Either reimagining music to famous movie clips, or seeking out free-to-use video with which to practise scoring to). Given that a possible ideal goal might be to be able to create bespoke soundtracks for films, it would be a great discipline to acquire.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
16910 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: No More Excuses...Please Help A Wannabe Songwriter

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:07 am

Well, it seems Steinberg has allowed the security certificate expire to their site and so now when I open up Cubase, I get a security warning screen for each site it's trying to connect to. If you have Cuabse, you know that's like 6 of them. So I have to now enter through 6 security screens before I can actually get into Cubase.

I sure hope they fix this soon.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
16910 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: No More Excuses...Please Help A Wannabe Songwriter

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:22 am

el-bo, assuming you're right (and actually, if I'm honest, you are right) think about what you just said and what I'm trying to accomplish given my age.

It took me years, and I mean TONS of years, to get a true feel for writing pop rock stuff because I do understand it inside and out.

How long do you think it's going to take me to get to THAT level of proficiency with genres I'm NOT comfortable with?

I mean let's be honest. How much longer am I going to even be able to physically do this before my overall mental capacity reaches a point where I can't even write a pop song anymore?

Without realizing it, you've basically said to me that I have years of study ahead of me. Years of study at age 61 is not exactly a luxury.

If I'm misunderstanding you, tell me. But it sure sounds like from what I just read that I've got a very long road ahead of me. I mean I wrote my first pop song in 1977 and didn't write my first "good" one until 1990. That's 13 years it took to get my first and only song contract.

13 years from now I'll be 74.

I can hope I'll pick this stuff up quicker but there is no guarantee that's going to happen.

Because like you said, there's a difference between "aping" a genre and truly understanding it.

In short, you really haven't instilled a lot of hope with your last response.

Of course maybe that dose of honesty is what I need.

But this also brings up an interesting question.

Since the first few pieces I write, at minimum, are going to be ones where I'm "aping" the genre, what's the point? They're not going to be any good by your own words. So when do I actually start writing so that I'm NOT aping things and actually writing from understanding or is that simply not possible?

You've opened up a can of worms here that I never truly thought about and now I'm wondering what the point is. If it's just to write stuff for my own enjoyment, I can do that writing pop music. I don't have to venture into something new. But if it's to get into a business, and you yourself said I shouldn't totally chuck the whole idea, the stuff I write for my own enjoyment to start isn't going to be worth a hill of beans from a business perspective. I mean it just won't be if all I'm doing is "aping"

I don't even know what else to say after that.

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Aloysius
KVRAF
24423 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from the Land of Soy

Re: No More Excuses...Please Help A Wannabe Songwriter

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:33 am

The End.
Hi-de-Hi!

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Karma_tba
KVRian
1069 posts since 12 Aug, 2004

Re: No More Excuses...Please Help A Wannabe Songwriter

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:06 am

Aloysius wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:33 am
The End.
One can only hope!! :roll:

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martinjuenke
KVRAF
4239 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Re: No More Excuses...Please Help A Wannabe Songwriter

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:07 am

Aloysius wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:33 am
The End.
https://youtu.be/JSUIQgEVDM4

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Aloysius
KVRAF
24423 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from the Land of Soy

Re: No More Excuses...Please Help A Wannabe Songwriter

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:08 am

Karma_tba wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:06 am
Aloysius wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:33 am
The End.
One can only hope!! :roll:
:lol:
Hi-de-Hi!

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