Insecurity

[foosnark]

Also I really dislike Schoenberg's actual music. He was trying to do something new and, well. Not my jam.

[Dasheesh]

it's more about apathy then insecurity, at least in my case. once every ten year old could hit a button and pump out what took me decades to accomplish it all got kind of meaningless and boring. i got into sound exploration and then the preset designers emerged. i got into music theory and the chord progression software emerged. nothing left but to think it and it materializes for you.

then i stopped being obsessed with perfection. it's starting to get fun again for me, but nobody will ever hear it because the world can't tell the difference between virtual and real anymore, nor does it care lol. so catch me next to a keyboard and buy me a drink sometime. i'll play you a tune. the rest of this shit is garbage, but people love garbage. they eat it up. they love it. you can sell garbage. perfection is trash.

[deastman]

Making music, or any sort of art, is a process. The verb is the key. It isn’t about the end result. The finished creation is merely a by-product of the work. Once your song is finished, that’s the death of the artistic process and you’ll have to file that piece away and start over. It doesn’t matter if the thing you made is any good, or if anyone will ever hear it. It’s all about the making. Making stuff is fun, right? So take all that pressure off your shoulders, don’t worry about measuring up to your own expectations, and simply enjoy the act of making.

Now, the part about the untouched drum kit sounds a lot like me. I think I have a fear of starting. It’s like going to the gym. I imagine that it will be so much effort and so much work that I talk myself out of even starting. It’s laziness, it’s habitual, it’s anxiety, it’s depression, all rolled into one. I’m finally, very slowly, coming out of a long, deep creative hibernation. What it really comes down to, for me, is forming new habits. Making the creative process a part of my daily routine. Feeling a sense of accomplishment for each day that I actually switch on a box, turn some knobs, record something. The more you do it, the easier it gets.

[jancivil]

Music theory describes what people have already done, it doesn't have to be a prescription for what to do now.

The second half of this sentence is surely right, but 'music theory' is abstract, you can use terms to describe what you're doing now, it's just a way, like a method to codify a practice which will make consistent sense. Schoenberg came up with 'music theory' when he formulated dodecaphonic serialism, which was not describing anything already done.

The thrust of the quote is that theory isn't there the dictate how people make music, but rather to describe how they do, or have done. The temporal thing is almost just a metaphor meant to impart that music making is the primary consideration.

Sorry to butt in, I just wanted to have this quote's back because the other day the drummer in my band said he didn't want to "learn the rules of music" and it basically ruined my evening, so I need this quote.

There are no 'rules of music' per se.

The reason we might want to learn some practices seems to be lost on quite a few. It's about building chops.

[jancivil]

Also I really dislike Schoenberg's actual music. He was trying to do something new and, well. Not my jam.

Talk about besides the point. (and "He was trying to" REALLY? It vanishes as he *did* in favor of not your "jam"? )
Brilliant, ignore facts which work to counter a statement you were so confident with. WINNING.
You're so validated now someone dinged me as though I missed your point! Congrats.

And given that I supported the second half of the sentence I can't see how I missed the point.

I just don't think the statement should go unaddressed, it's one of those misconstructions you received and reiterated and people will follow suit. Look, people will develop a fear of music theory, there appears to be a notion of it which is stymying the OP even. If you make sense of your own idea, if you can make sense of 12 bar blues to yourself in order to do it consistently, it's a form of music theory. The first part of your sentence is not true, and it dismissed something useful.

[BONES]

I had a very similar thing happen to me. I would get back on the horse by setting a goal to play something every day and write something every week. Even if it's just a few measures, even if it's random notes or chords, as long as it feels good, do it.

I'm not sure that it would necessarily be helpful, it might just reinforce the negativity if he's not happy with the result. Much better to go with the flow and let it happen when it's ready to happen.

I only wrote one song in 12 years up until last year, when I wrote half-a-dozen in a few months. It never bothered me, I realised I just wasn't interested in it at the time. Then I was and I dived back in like I'd never stopped. I'm sure that if I'd forced myself to sit down and write I'd have hated the results. Much better to take a break, even if it turns out to be a few years, than to turn it into an unrewarding chore.

We can't all be the best. Many of us can be pretty good at something, if we are lucky enough to figure out what.

This! I've never thought that what I/we do is anything special or better than dozens of other artists doing similar things but I've always thought it was good enough (when it's been good enough, of course) and that there were at least as many bands worse than us than better. And to me that means that what we have to offer is worthwhile. i.e. It doesn't have to be the best, it just has to be good enough.

Of course, that still takes me 6 months - we finished writing our album last September but we only delivered it a couple of weeks ago. Maybe there is a lesson in that - it's one thing to spend a day or two working on an arrangement but if it's not then worth spending another 3 or 4 months on making it as good as you can, then perhaps it's not worth persisting with at all? I put all that stuff in a folder called "KRAP" and when I'm short on ideas I can load some of it up and look for some inspiration.

Making stuff is fun, right?

No, I think Edison had it right - 1% inspiration (fun), 99% perspiration. For me it's the result that matters, not the journey. That's probably because making it isn't the end of my process - I only write songs so I've got something to perform on stage and it's the performing that I enjoy. The rest of it is mostly horrible.

Now, the part about the untouched drum kit sounds a lot like me.

Me too. I deliberately put all my hardware away while I was finishing our album. I set it all up again a couple of weeks ago, yet it was only last night that I actually got around to switching it all on and doing anything with it. And because it's been more than 6 months, last night was all about remembering how to use it all again. Tonight might feel a little more productive but I don't expect to get anything done. That won't happen until we book a gig and I have to start getting into it properly.

[deastman]

Making stuff is fun, right?

No, I think Edison had it right - 1% inspiration (fun), 99% perspiration. For me it's the result that matters, not the journey. That's probably because making it isn't the end of my process - I only write songs so I've got something to perform on stage and it's the performing that I enjoy. The rest of it is mostly horrible.

I know you have a day job, but I think it's fair to categorize you as a pro? And as such, is it fair to say that you're focused primarily on completing and releasing your next product (album) so you'll have something new to play live and to sell at gigs? What I'm talking about doesn't really pertain to people in that situation. But for every professional musician, there are many more amateurs who are making music strictly for the love of the craft. That's what I'm referring to.

[foosnark]

Also I really dislike Schoenberg's actual music. He was trying to do something new and, well. Not my jam.

Talk about besides the point. (and "He was trying to" REALLY? It vanishes as he *did* in favor of not your "jam"? )
Brilliant, ignore facts which work to counter a statement you were so confident with. WINNING.
You're so validated now someone dinged me as though I missed your point! Congrats.

You took my not-very-serious, off the cuff post far too seriously. The part where I don't personally like serialism is true, but I don't mean this to be some statement of great historical or philosophical relevance nor did I seriously mean it as a sweeping judgement against... whatever it is I'm meant to be judging here

....and now that I reread what it was you said, yes, you had a valid point, music theory can be used to produce new music rather than retroactively describe it.

But I think it's less than helpful to use music theory as a tool to judge music as "incorrect" or "not good" because it doesn't conform to whichever set of principles one wants it to. It's like saying that poetry is wrong because it's not grammatically correct.

[jancivil]

Yeah, I totally agree with your last paragraph. You can't apply most of what you'd use in classical harmony - of any period - to judge music which isn't harmonic. You can't apply proscriptions of part-writing extrapolated from JS Bach to rock music which uses a lot of parallels.

However one may acquire a more expansive view of things.

Beyond this we'd have to go into specifics of what Funky Lime found wanting, it could well be true that understanding more exposed some really bad tendencies.

There is a negative feedback loop happening, which is depressing.


I have things I want to do which I don't think I can even pull off so there would be a tendency to not even start, as mentioned. Some of it isn't going to come to fruition. But goddamnit some of it is.
And 'a lot of work', I'm not physically strong enough now but for so much work. But I have to start, the ideas won't dissolve just because I may prefer not. The last several compositions had to happen from my bed, I don't do anything except in bed now.

[BONES]

I know you have a day job, but I think it's fair to categorize you as a pro? And as such, is it fair to say that you're focused primarily on completing and releasing your next product (album) so you'll have something new to play live and to sell at gigs?

Not really. Our last album got us a gig in Germany, which has been my primary motivation in putting so much effort into the next one. Finishing a song, finishing an album, is tremendously rewarding for me, they are things we've made of which I am inordinately proud. Writing new songs for the first time in years in 2018 felt really, really good but I still had to spend another agonising 4 or 5 months getting them finished, which is the biggest part of the process for me and the one I get the least enjoyment from.

What I'm talking about doesn't really pertain to people in that situation. But for every professional musician, there are many more amateurs who are making music strictly for the love of the craft. That's what I'm referring to.

Yeah, the instant gratification crowd. I get that but I've never been a part of it. I know that nothing I can do in a day is going to be good enough, not good enough for me and not good enough to share with anyone else (except my bandmate, of course). For me, making it good enough requires a lot of hard, boring work. Which makes me wonder if Funky Lime isn't giving up on his ideas too soon, or his expectations are too high. i.e. When I am just playing around on the gear, I have no expectation that anything will come of it, so I don't feel any pressure to get anything out of it other than a few hours of pleasant distraction.

[jancivil]

Everything I do I start from this

https://zenhabits.net/beginner/

I'd recommend everyone look at this.

[jancivil]

I did things like FAWM for several years in a row, and I noticed that each year, I made fewer and fewer songs. My first FAWM I did like 30 songs. The next year was 14, the year after that was 10, after that 6, after that 5, after that was 2, and then the past few years I signed up but didn't even manage to make a single song. I was too critical of myself.

Can't tell what the acronym stands for, but apparently the result of the program was putting pressure on yourself in some way to see how many 'songs' you can produce over a span of time. Why is this a good idea, do you think? I don't know why people think of this as anything, before they consider what it is they're going to do. You're supposed to do what, crank out something to prove you can?

I take a month to do anything (rhetorical, but almost true). Now, what I am doing might have no template or model at_all but that's only one aspect. The sound design can take days. The form is unknown, and happens of a piece with the idea(s).

Everyone has their own workflow and modi operandi and goals. It strikes me as fairly probable that someone who did 30 'songs' in one year made 30 pretty mediocre things, unless one is really prolific with *good* ideas. Why would one be?
That would be exceptional.
OTOH they could be 30 1 minute things with very little in the way of content or ideas. It seems like a surfeit any way I look at it. So this is a way to get in your own way already. It's a goalpost for the goalpost's sake, isn't it? Now it crushes you.

Another thought I have on this is the emphasis on productivity, the results-oriented way of being (NB: I need a result, albeit the journey is explorative); so your 'songs' suck now? So what? Expect to suck then; what's the big deal? If it's time to rethink everything, take your time and experiment; do some kind of real study program.
Find a course, a real, legitimate course in 4-part harmony, say a community college course and don't worry about your own precious music and build solid chops just like everybody does! Come on.

The fact of having a fully-outfitted sequencer in a modern DAW has led y'all to a delusion that you're ready to make product.
Get a musical eduction for real and wipe your slate clean since you totally suck. Seriously. While this may be clinical depression at work, which I would never even try to speak to really, it seems all so very precious to have a high standard like this is a problem in itself.

[Distorted Horizon]

The more I studied music theory, less I liked to make music.. I actually quit making it for a year maybe? After that year I accidentally found the joy again and now the knowledge is just a tool, not that I'd know much but still.

[telecode]

The more I studied music theory, less I liked to make music.. I actually quit making it for a year maybe? After that year I accidentally found the joy again and now the knowledge is just a tool, not that I'd know much but still.

thats sort of like anything when you study it. i love cinema and film but i hate the stuff i had to study. the mind always drifted to other types of cinema and films than the ones i had to study for exams because, studying is like work, gets boring after a while.

[vurt]

I did things like FAWM for several years in a row, and I noticed that each year, I made fewer and fewer songs. My first FAWM I did like 30 songs. The next year was 14, the year after that was 10, after that 6, after that 5, after that was 2, and then the past few years I signed up but didn't even manage to make a single song. I was too critical of myself.

Can't tell what the acronym stands for,

feb. album in a week month i think?
designed to get people hitting a wall, just to do something!

the idea being not to be too critical, an idea a day. get it down!
not so much a competition as a means of inspiring people.
never took part myself but have heard some good stuff about it and heard a few compositions done for it that have been pretty good.