Building a plugin soft synth for OSX?
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Sound Mechanics Sound Mechanics https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=54454
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1618 posts since 10 Jan, 2005 from UK
A forum I've never posted in before... so a sort of newby question...
After years of using soft synths, creating them is an area I've never really looked into before. I've had a play around with Reaktor, MAX Software, SynthEdit, etc. over the years, but haven't delved in deep at all. I would still like to learn a bit more, out of curiosity,... so what is the best route to building plugin synths, on a MAC?
After years of using soft synths, creating them is an area I've never really looked into before. I've had a play around with Reaktor, MAX Software, SynthEdit, etc. over the years, but haven't delved in deep at all. I would still like to learn a bit more, out of curiosity,... so what is the best route to building plugin synths, on a MAC?
Last edited by Sound Mechanics on Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Sound Mechanics Sound Mechanics https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=54454
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1618 posts since 10 Jan, 2005 from UK
After having a good read of the 'How to create VST Plugins', it seems like a big jump from using programs like Reaktor to programming in C++ or equivalent for OSX?
Is it a complex world beyond these type of environments?
Is it a complex world beyond these type of environments?
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- KVRian
- 621 posts since 28 Feb, 2011 from Sweden
The jump from reactor etc to C++ is indeed a big one, especially if you haven't programmed before. Building plugins is not the easiest thing to start with when learning programming either.
There are things like csound you could look at too, not really for building plugins but might be interesting enough.
I think MAX might be the best tool if you want to go a bit deeper into the nuts and bolts without going all in to development.
There are things like csound you could look at too, not really for building plugins but might be interesting enough.
I think MAX might be the best tool if you want to go a bit deeper into the nuts and bolts without going all in to development.
David Guda gudaaudio.com
- KVRian
- 871 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England
Where to start? It's a big subject.
For me, the complexity comes from the OS's you have to battle with to achieve anything. Especially these days.
That's why I now use a library called JUCE. It's free to learn, but the free one has to have their logo as a splash screen - no problem while learning.
This guy is good to follow, he's tends to meander a lot and comes across as unprepared (don't start counting his 'urms,' 'aars' and 'kays' ), but I like his presentations, his tuts helped me a lot to get started with Juce:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n16Yw51xkI
His Channel:-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpKb02 ... X_2xhIoJ1A
...It might help you decide whether you can cut it or not!
Others will probably tell you to start with learning C++ for a couple of years, then do a course in Mathematics & DSP etc etc.
But in the end, enthusiasm, imagination, and experimentation can go a long way.
I wish I could be arsed to be more explanatory, sorry.
For me, the complexity comes from the OS's you have to battle with to achieve anything. Especially these days.
That's why I now use a library called JUCE. It's free to learn, but the free one has to have their logo as a splash screen - no problem while learning.
This guy is good to follow, he's tends to meander a lot and comes across as unprepared (don't start counting his 'urms,' 'aars' and 'kays' ), but I like his presentations, his tuts helped me a lot to get started with Juce:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n16Yw51xkI
His Channel:-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpKb02 ... X_2xhIoJ1A
...It might help you decide whether you can cut it or not!
Others will probably tell you to start with learning C++ for a couple of years, then do a course in Mathematics & DSP etc etc.
But in the end, enthusiasm, imagination, and experimentation can go a long way.
I wish I could be arsed to be more explanatory, sorry.
Dave Hoskins. http://www.quikquak.com
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- KVRian
- 621 posts since 28 Feb, 2011 from Sweden
- KVRist
- 347 posts since 20 Apr, 2005 from Moscow, Russian Federation
Others will probably tell you to start with learning C++ for a couple of years ...
It's not that it's really about "many years", but unfortunately - yes - starting right away with a plugin in either less-or-more mainstream language (be it C++ or JavaScript) w/o having a few simplest "Hello, World!"s before that is a perfect way to kill any enthusiasm.
... then do a course in Mathematics & DSP etc etc.
Same here. Even a simplest "Soft Synth" would involve a knowledge of a few not-so-trivial things around "a Math beyond the Sound" so it's again a dead-end to get right to it w/o getting "familiar" with much more simple things first. (There some "building-blocks" libraries out there obviously, but they rather hide the required knowledge from you instead of exposing it).
So getting back to "I would still like to learn a bit more" - it all depends (as always) on what is "a bit" and what is "more".
(I.e. a "plugin" thing indeed may be really a bad "next step" in a generic case).
It's not that it's really about "many years", but unfortunately - yes - starting right away with a plugin in either less-or-more mainstream language (be it C++ or JavaScript) w/o having a few simplest "Hello, World!"s before that is a perfect way to kill any enthusiasm.
... then do a course in Mathematics & DSP etc etc.
Same here. Even a simplest "Soft Synth" would involve a knowledge of a few not-so-trivial things around "a Math beyond the Sound" so it's again a dead-end to get right to it w/o getting "familiar" with much more simple things first. (There some "building-blocks" libraries out there obviously, but they rather hide the required knowledge from you instead of exposing it).
So getting back to "I would still like to learn a bit more" - it all depends (as always) on what is "a bit" and what is "more".
(I.e. a "plugin" thing indeed may be really a bad "next step" in a generic case).
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Sound Mechanics Sound Mechanics https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=54454
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1618 posts since 10 Jan, 2005 from UK
Thank you for the helpful replies. I'll check the suggested links above, they look very interesting.
These are the sort of answers I expected. As I realise from having a browse in this forum that beyond Reaktor and similar applications it becomes much more complex with a steep learning curve, not so much for the hobbyist but more for those with a background of Maths, programming and commitment.
If time is a big factor it's a bit of a fork in the road, something would have to give if it were all to be done properly.
I wonder if many of the software synthesizer companies started from scratch with the aim of building a synth or if they already had a good grounding in the basics... with maybe a degree in Mathematics or programming under their belt?
These are the sort of answers I expected. As I realise from having a browse in this forum that beyond Reaktor and similar applications it becomes much more complex with a steep learning curve, not so much for the hobbyist but more for those with a background of Maths, programming and commitment.
If time is a big factor it's a bit of a fork in the road, something would have to give if it were all to be done properly.
I wonder if many of the software synthesizer companies started from scratch with the aim of building a synth or if they already had a good grounding in the basics... with maybe a degree in Mathematics or programming under their belt?
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- KVRist
- 210 posts since 11 Feb, 2006
All the cool kids are using this these days: https://audiokit.io
Creates Audio Units or standalone apps OSX/iOS, and has a huge array of features.
There's a very nice open source synth made with it available here: https://audiokitpro.com/synth
And a bunch of Swift playground examples included: https://audiokit.io/examples
Creates Audio Units or standalone apps OSX/iOS, and has a huge array of features.
There's a very nice open source synth made with it available here: https://audiokitpro.com/synth
And a bunch of Swift playground examples included: https://audiokit.io/examples
- KVRian
- 871 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England
There are too many questions, like how much time do you have spare, and how are you at teaching yourself?
It all boils down to the individual, for example it's easy for me to forget how steep the learning curve was with some things, because I enjoyed it so much. I've found experimentation and actual coding was the only way to learn ANYTHING programming related.
Dave
It all boils down to the individual, for example it's easy for me to forget how steep the learning curve was with some things, because I enjoyed it so much. I've found experimentation and actual coding was the only way to learn ANYTHING programming related.
Dave
Dave Hoskins. http://www.quikquak.com
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Sound Mechanics Sound Mechanics https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=54454
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1618 posts since 10 Jan, 2005 from UK
My time is limited I must say and my background is technical illustration, which I have been doing for some years now, but no coding experience at all. I do enjoy learning new skills though, hence starting a sound bank website this year, but coding could be one skill too many I can see that it's an all or nothing decision
I can't resist have a little delve though, maybe my son could given me a bit of help
Which is the most popular coding program for MAC and what do the major soft synth developers use for producing the various synth formats (MAC & PC)? do they use a combination of C++ and other software?
I can't resist have a little delve though, maybe my son could given me a bit of help
Which is the most popular coding program for MAC and what do the major soft synth developers use for producing the various synth formats (MAC & PC)? do they use a combination of C++ and other software?
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- KVRist
- 210 posts since 11 Feb, 2006
The best way to start learning programming for OSX/iOS (and that means learning Swift really) is the Playgrounds app for iPad, it's great for kids especially. You can move later to XCode playgrounds and try quick audio experiments using AudioKit or Apple's AVAudioEngine. I started out as a graphic designer many years ago and switched to programming.
https://www.apple.com/uk/swift/playgrounds/
IPlug and JUCE are the two main SDKs used to produce VST/AU/AAX for Mac/Windows. But that means getting into C++, which most people would agree, is more difficult than Swift for a first timer.
https://www.apple.com/uk/swift/playgrounds/
IPlug and JUCE are the two main SDKs used to produce VST/AU/AAX for Mac/Windows. But that means getting into C++, which most people would agree, is more difficult than Swift for a first timer.
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Sound Mechanics Sound Mechanics https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=54454
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1618 posts since 10 Jan, 2005 from UK
Thanks, I did have a brief look at this some time back.
I'll ask my youngest lad if he's come across this in school yet (13 yrs) as syllabuses are forever changing, especially in this field.
It maybe fun for both of us to look at and give him a head start for what's coming.
I've had a look at JUCE & XCode info. pages which look interesting, but Swift looks a good place to start.
I'll ask my youngest lad if he's come across this in school yet (13 yrs) as syllabuses are forever changing, especially in this field.
It maybe fun for both of us to look at and give him a head start for what's coming.
I've had a look at JUCE & XCode info. pages which look interesting, but Swift looks a good place to start.