README - For non-programmers with great ideas

[aciddose]

Are you implying that a person needs 1.000 bucks just to cover the basic living expenses?

No, I was trying to give a rough impression to start from so location and specifics don't need to be accounted for accurately.

I was suggesting it as a minimum starting point to allow people to understand exactly what they're asking for when they assume "programming is easy, I just need a programmer all the ideas are there already."

It's a very labor intensive creative pursuit that takes inordinate amounts of time and very specialized skills. If we're talking 8-hour days to be fair, the programmer needs to be compensated at minimum for their cost of living during the period they're working on the project.

Here where I am recently it hasn't been possible to find a flat/apartment for less than $1200 if you're lucky enough to find one at all. That doesn't include other expenses, that's rent alone. So offering less than that you'll likely narrow your options significantly and likely to the point there simply are no programmers who could afford to do the work at all.

[Obsolete236871]

...
It's a very labor intensive creative pursuit that takes inordinate amounts of time and very specialized skills. If we're talking 8-hour days to be fair, the programmer needs to be compensated at minimum for their cost of living during the period they're working on the project.

Here where I am recently it hasn't been possible to find a flat/apartment for less than $1200 if you're lucky enough to find one at all. That doesn't include other expenses, that's rent alone. So offering less than that you'll likely narrow your options significantly and likely to the point there simply are no programmers who could afford to do the work at all.

Yes, I definitely have a lot of respect for all the developers, since it seems to require a lot of concerted effort to acquire the necessary knowledge to code audio plugins. I have high regard for people who still have the ability to focus on one field of interest and who manage to maintain that interest for learning over the cause of many years, especially with all the distractions and entertainment around these days.

But I also believe that the ones who are drawn to that field most likely already have the motivation and interest that enables them to do what it takes: the hard work and learn all the stuff. It's not like people are forcing themselves to learn DSP against their own will, just to have a job.

Also, my impression is that it has become slightly easier to learn DSP coding with frameworks like Juce and IPlug or with functional programming languages available, that take some of the complexities of abstraction out of the equation. It's probably still a very sophisticated and demanding job, but probably slightly more accessible to beginners than it was ten years ago I guess?

I guess if anyone really wanted to contract a developer to realize one's own plugin concept, one could contract a computer science student from one of the schools that teach DSP, maybe for a masters thesis project or something similar.

Now I'm really curious as to where you are living currently, since it seems to be quite an expensive location?

[aciddose]

Near Vancouver, one of the most expensive places to live on earth right now. The really scary thing is these extreme prices have started to spread last fall into the surrounding areas... in tiny little towns where there is no work and you need to drive 40+km to get to a grocery the rent for a single bedroom apartment is also near $1200. During the 2000s that would have been rent for a full two story house.

[resynthesis]

IzakS, DSP is probably more established than, for example, web technology. It's heavily in demand in a number of areas and has been for decades! As well as music apps, see radar, sonar, econometrics, speech, seismology, telecomms, etc.

[goldenanalog]

[Tj Shredder]

Near Vancouver, one of the most expensive places to live on earth right now. The really scary thing is these extreme prices have started to spread last fall into the surrounding areas... in tiny little towns where there is no work and you need to drive 40+km to get to a grocery the rent for a single bedroom apartment is also near $1200. During the 2000s that would have been rent for a full two story house.

The refeudalization is happening around landlords. Now I know why they are called landlords...
Squeeze all what is possible out of those who work without putting much work in... Or even better find someone to play the landlord game and burry them under debt...

[DJ Warmonger]

DSP is difficult maths in first place and require in-depth uderstanding, as well as proficiency to get ahead with actually useful results. That's something people learn only via engineer degree, online blogs are often insufficient. Also DSP skills are rare for same reason, unlike at least basic web development.

I guess if anyone really wanted to contract a developer to realize one's own plugin concept, one could contract a computer science student from one of the schools that teach DSP

There is a reason why senior developers can earn 4 times more juniors do, and that's efficiency. If you pick up a rookie, expect the project to never be finished or be 1 year late and still buggy

Or even better find someone to play the landlord game and burry them under debt

That's another topic, however as far as I can see software developers expect to stand above the line that separates the landlords from their slaves. If you want to attract a developer, you need to offer them more they earn currently.

[docbot]

Just wondering, how much do you think is a reasonable general start offer if one wants to find a programmer to code a synth of medium complexity, if one already has figured out the whole gui and usability aspects, click actions, interface etc?

[BertKoor]

Just wondering, how much do you think is a reasonable general start offer if one wants to find a programmer to code a synth of medium complexity, if one already has figured out the whole gui and usability aspects, click actions, interface etc?

Problem one: finding an experienced developer who is willing to do work that's not his own project.
Then let him do the estimates.

To give you a rough idea: assuming it's two months work (320 hours) with an hourly rate of $100... you can do the math

[docbot]

Just wondering, how much do you think is a reasonable general start offer if one wants to find a programmer to code a synth of medium complexity, if one already has figured out the whole gui and usability aspects, click actions, interface etc?

Problem one: finding an experienced developer who is willing to do work that's not his own project.
Then let him do the estimates.

To give you a rough idea: assuming it's two months work (320 hours) with an hourly rate of $100... you can do the math

so I better learn how to program myself

[PeterP_swe]

You can get quite far with something like NI Reaktor or Max4Live as a non-programmer.

[kilon]

an idea is not something that pops up and then you forget about it. It is a living thing that needs to grow and develop. Even the worst idea can grow to something amazing but like a sculptor its a tedious process of applying the idea to real implementations let it fail, examine it and going back to the drawing board and let it fail again and again. When you treat your idea as a one night stand its no wonder people won't appreciate it either.

Coding is super easy compared to developing an idea. Some would argue that coding is all about developing and improving ideas. On other other hand some would also argue that developing ideas is what life is about. My opinion is that if the idea is yours then you will treat it appropriately and develop it far from just an abstract thing that could have been anything and nothing.

[cineplus]

Here i am. Exactly the guy you are talking about. I am a musician, i already created some software (video) with a guy who coded them. I'm selling these things here: www.cineplus.ch, i'm making some money with it.
Now i have an idea for a very simple (noooo!! dont' say that:)) plugin... Yes, it is simple, very simple, and i find many people asking for it in forums, i searched for it, but nothing. No one made it. It's much requested these days. It's a plugin that would be used mostly in live situations. I am exactly that guy who is suggesting a 50-50 split on revenue. I already had such experience and it was very successfully, with this Adobe plugin: http://www.cineplus.ch/ccp.html
Now i'm looking for a skilled AU/VST developer who is wanting to develop this simple yet very useful plugin, and make some money with it. If you are interested i will send you a NDA, then i will send you the project.
Please don't ban me, i'm serious about it, and i know what's all about.
Cheers

[aciddose]

Here i am. Exactly the guy you are talking about.

Did you read the thread? Note the "README" part where it says not to do what you've just done and recommends how you should more effectively accomplish what you need to although may be unaware.

Just to be clear I'll give you step-by-step;

1. Post your own thread in an appropriate forum, don't just tag-along on an existing thread from 12+ years ago.
2. Describe what you're trying to accomplish. I have no idea if you want to make a synthesizer or a VST video player.
3. Describe how long you expect the work to take and what you're willing to pay.
4. If you have an NDA, do you have an NDA for the NDA? Why not just post it publicly so we know what you want us to agree to. What are you offering as consideration for the NDA? Anything?
5. You should probably offer something better than "this idea is obvious and people talk about it on forums all the time." What makes your idea or design good other than the fact it's obvious?

To be honest I have absolutely no idea what you're even talking about. I've looked at the linked site, there is nothing to go on there. All you've said is summed up in a single sentence: "I want someone to program a very simple video-related (?) VST/AU plug-in."

Anyone familiar with contract law knows that even signing an NDA can create legal obligations or liabilities beyond the mere explicit terms of that particular agreement. Your post follows the pattern of "idea guys" 100%, absolutely every part, including the "NDA" demands nonsense.

Again, to be honest, your post looks like it's intended as a joke.

[Fender19]

Ideas are cheap. Implementations are expensive.

The plugins offered on your website contradict this statement. The implementations are cheap (free) because there are no new ideas (valuable).