Hive 2.0

[Home Studio 87]

I've a question regarding skinning. Can one build a fullscreen (fe 1920x1080) skin which is touch screen optimized?

+100 on this cause on my 27' Multi touch screen it's very cool to "touch" the synth (Diva & Repro are very cool) and with the resizable function you can have "big button" to touch/turn... just miss the real Multitouch Uhe software...

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

While he may not think so, I totally get where mi-os is coming from. I'm personally no fan of touch screens for audio work and love a good tactile interface. Touch screens just always feel clumsy to use IMO. Like, did I grab it at the right spot? Am a turning the knob as much as I think I am? Accuracy always feels terrible. And the surfaces I've used are generally small (10.5" iPad) and have felt cramped.

I bought a System-8 a few years back primarily to act as a Virtual Instrument controller, and it works infinitely better at controlling most softsynths than any touchscreen+iPad or hardware with banks of 8 method I ever used. I still think the world needs a great synth controller that includes a good keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch, a crap-ton of knobs, faders, and buttons laid out in a VA-like layout, and some generic, assignable macro knobs under a nice OLED screen. Like if NI combined their Komplete Kontrol/NKS funcitons with the parameter count and layout of the Novation Summit. Honestly, I'd spend $2,500 on that controller. For now, I'm thinking about adding a Summit to my setup to potentially replace the System-8 as my primary synth controller just due to the poly aftertouch and extra controls (but there's other things to do first).

That said, a MIDI assignable Global FX Bypass in the U-he synths would also be on my feature request list. But I definitely don't need every parameter to be MIDI learn-able (like the mod matrix for example) as that just wouldn't add any value to the type of setup I, and probably most people, have. If I can get the 85% of the most commonly used features in a synth mapped to hardware, I'm happy. I can live with some mousing, and as Urs pointed out, it actually makes more sense with some things.

[Urs]

I'm personally no fan of touch screens for audio work [...]

Neither am I.

Using an iPad next to a Soundforce controller is just one option. Our interface stuff also allows for dynamic remapping of knobs based on the concept of "pages" though. You could use an iPad/Touchscreen just to display values and have a row of knobs below it to tweak those values - just like on most hardware synths. Use the Touchscreen only for the things knobs can't do: FX routing etc.

[Urs]

Re. Multitouch: Major rewrite. Won't happen anytime soon, I'm afraid :-/

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I'm personally no fan of touch screens for audio work [...]

Neither am I.

Using an iPad next to a Soundforce controller is just one option. Our interface stuff also allows for dynamic remapping of knobs based on the concept of "pages" though. You could use an iPad/Touchscreen just to display values and have a row of knobs below it to tweak those values - just like on most hardware synths. Use the Touchscreen only for the things knobs can't do: FX routing etc.

Totally on the same page. For things little things like FX Routing they can be great, but not for fine control/musical performance. Nothing about tweaking on a parameter on a touch screen makes me feel like I'm a musician in a performance. But like...maybe pressing a button/trigger on a touch screen or changing something like FX routing on an iPad makes perfect sense, but tweaking filter cutoff, ADSR's, etc. on touch screens just sucks. IMO of course.

[mi-os]

I'm personally no fan of touch screens for audio work [...]

Neither am I.

Using an iPad next to a Soundforce controller is just one option. Our interface stuff also allows for dynamic remapping of knobs based on the concept of "pages" though. You could use an iPad/Touchscreen just to display values and have a row of knobs below it to tweak those values - just like on most hardware synths. Use the Touchscreen only for the things knobs can't do: FX routing etc.

+1 for avoiding touch screens if possible

Although the idea of having one for stuff otherwise not possbile is appealing to some degree. I wonder how it would work when the plugin is hosted in Cubase for example. Who controls what is displayed on that screen when you open/close instances of a plugin or another plugin? For the system this screen is simply like any other additional monitor, right? Another question would be whether there is an equivalent for PC/Windows users.

[Urs]

Who controls what is displayed on that screen when you open/close instances of a plugin or another plugin? For the system this screen is simply like any other additional monitor, right? Another question would be whether there is an equivalent for PC/Windows users.

It's basically another monitor, yes. I'm curious as to how well it works on Catalina, it should be wireless.

Not sure how/if it/what works with PC.

In Logic one can use the link-symbol to open any selected plug-in in just one Window. So if your controller is set up to control whatever is selected, your screen could automatically switch between instances as well.

If you want to build a controller with a built-in display and some kind of controller, you might need a feedback channel from the plug-in. That's something we're planning, but it's also something we haven't done yet / don't know how well it would work.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Not sure how/if it/what works with PC.

You can do it on Windows via an app. There's one called Duet Display which you can install on an iPad, install on Windows, and Windows sees the iPad as a second, touch enabled monitor. Works pretty well.

[Ploki]

If you want to build a controller with a built-in display and some kind of controller, you might need a feedback channel from the plug-in. That's something we're planning, but it's also something we haven't done yet / don't know how well it would work.

doesn't logic generally report parameters back on supported controllers by default?

[mi-os]

I wonder if that iPad thingy is based on video or data streams. If it's based on video stream there could be unwanted latency involved. Energy and general efficiency of such a solution would be another topic.

Some time ago i looked into those small USB touch screen monitors aimed for travelling. I can't remember why, but dismissed them too for some reason. They are very expensive in any case.

[Ploki]

I wonder if that iPad thingy is based on video or data streams. If it's based on video stream there could be unwanted latency involved. Energy and general efficiency of such a solution would be another topic.

Some time ago i looked into those small USB touch screen monitors aimed for travelling. I can't remember why, but dismissed them too for some reason. They are very expensive in any case.

i think iPad as Sidecar is video, how do you propose data-stream would work?
Also touch input is very limited.

I picked up somewhere that latency via USB is around 15ms?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

On Windows I only used Duet Display (connected via USB - which may be the only option on Windows) as a psuedo second monitor where I'd throw an FX interface where I could tweak my reverb or something quickly while I had the Cubase mixer open. Didn't notice any appreciable latency but wasn't doing anything crazy time sensitive either.

[mi-os]

i think iPad as Sidecar is video, how do you propose data-stream would work?

If the iPad (client) runs the same OS as the Mac (server) it should be possible to exchange commands (data) only between the two, right? That way there would also be some kind of load distribution.

Edit: it would only work on OS level i think. So it is most likely video stream based. I personally don't like the idea of permanent video streams for an application like this.

[Ploki]

If the iPad (client) runs the same OS as the Mac (server) it should be possible to exchange commands (data) only between the two, right? That way there would also be some kind of load distribution.

Edit: it would only work on OS level i think. So it is most likely video stream based. I personally don't like the idea of permanent video streams for a application like this.

I understand what you mean, but no, they're the same base (darwin), related, but not at all the same. And it would automatically negate third party stuff or you'd need to have two local copies.

[Ploki]

On Windows I only used Duet Display (connected via USB - which may be the only option on Windows) as a psuedo second monitor where I'd throw an FX interface where I could tweak my reverb or something quickly while I had the Cubase mixer open. Didn't notice any appreciable latency but wasn't doing anything crazy time sensitive either.

50ms or so last time i tried, i wanted to use it for metering but it tasked my CPU too much and it had too much latency.
I gave up and bought a small 9.7" HiDPI screen instead.