Zebra 3/Hive schedule?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I've sometimes thought about Previous/Next options on U-he synths because I hate dropdown menus or having to click, drag, click again, when I just want to audition what the next filter type or LFO shape or whatever may sound like or quickly cycle to the next one. Every time, I've come to the same conclusion as spunkmuffin: for most use cases, there's just too much that would go into that.

At least for filter types, LFO's, etc., you can select the parameter then use the mouse wheel to cycle and pretty much all parameters like that are MIDI learnable. For module presets, the Hive approach works well too in that it's out of the way and doesn't take any GUI space.

Zebra 2 has Osc presets already, so I'd expect similar functionality in Z3. What I'd like to see in Z3 are "lane presets" and per-lane key-ranges/volume scaling. That would make it easier to build up layers from different presets, drum kits, etc. Only gets tricky when a sound relies on modules in a different lane.

[spunkmuffin]

Every time, I've come to the same conclusion as spunkmuffin: for most use cases, there's just too much that would go into that.

I just edited my last post to say I'm in favour. Hehe I didn't actually say it's too much. I think its a nightmare but I want it.

[EvilDragon]

Well, if the patch browser is expanded to support module presets, that would be a solution...

[spunkmuffin]

Well, if the patch browser is expanded to support module presets, that would be a solution...

The modules also have to be expanded to support presets. Not a pretty solution but I want it. More a colloid or suspension rather than a solution.

For module presets, the Hive approach works well too in that it's out of the way and doesn't take any GUI space.

Actually it does take up GUI space. And there are 2 different implementations of it in Hive. The Arp/Seq and FX have their own preset name panels.
If you want to add arrow/mousewheel preset navigation per module you need even more UI real estate. But I don't see any good way around that. Overall worth doing.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

A small icon that pops open a browser could indeed work. But to add previous/next arrows, preset names, etc. to each module's GUI is just something I can't see happening or being worth doing. But having those features in the browser window itself, allowing you to easily audition patches there? Sure.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Oops. Delete.

[spunkmuffin]

In the new WIP Hive UI I can't see those buttons at all. Hmm maybe u-he thought most people don't use this feature so we will hide it. Now to get to it you click on the OSC1 or LFO2 title. So maybe Funkybot you're right and it doesn't have to take up any UI space, at least not directly.

Yeah we need a separate page with a spreadsheet type list of all open modules with preset names and previous/next arrows. Not too bad an idea I think, Urs would scream though. Maybe he can be convinced if it's sold as the least evil of many evils.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

In the new WIP Hive UI I can't see those buttons at all. Hmm maybe u-he thought most people don't use this feature so we will hide it. Now to get to it you click on the OSC1 or LFO2 title. So maybe Funkybot you're right and it doesn't have to take up any UI space, at least not directly.

Yeah we need a separate page with a spreadsheet type list of all open modules with preset names and previous/next arrows. Not too bad an idea I think, Urs would scream though. Maybe he can be convinced if it's sold as the least evil of many evils.

I'm not sure I get what you mean by spreadsheet type list, but I'm sure the U-he team understand where the opportunities are and will ultimately come up with something. Just look at the preset browser: they understood the need, and built my favorite (no u) browser. If they asked me to design a browser, it may have had many of the same features but the implementation wouldn't have been quite so elegant. So in short: I'm confident they've weighed the options, understand the opportunities, and will land upon a great solution. Doesn't mean there may not be other ways to do it, but they'll land on something good taking into account the pros and cons.

[Urs]

Yeah, hehe, I'm not a big fan of < > buttons for module presets. Module presets themselves are often good and useful, but they can not reflect the interaction of modules. E.g. often parameters are set in respect to modulations. So you'd have to save a larger context. And that's what presets do.

As such I see module presets as starting points, quick ways to copy/paste, or as means to illustrate techniques. But I wouldn't give them a lot more space.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I think Zebra gets it right with Osc presets to load up a set of waves, and MSEG presets. Combine that with presets for individual FX and FX Chains, and that pretty much covers 95% of my "module presets" needs in all honesty.

I'm curious as to what Z3 will bring, but at a basic level, I'd like to be able to do some basic layering and keyswitching in the lanes, and be able to copy/paste modules. Specifically thinking: single-lane kick from preset X on lane 1, single-lane snare from preset Y on lane 2, take that cool hi-hat from preset Z and paste it on lane 3, etc and have the envelopes/lfo's just magically copy over too. Or maybe: let me copy and paste those 2 pad lanes from preset X and do a keysplit with the bass from preset Y so I can play both at the same time from a single instance during the gig next week. I'm not sure if you're interested in that within Z3, but those are the use-cases I have in mind. Also, I say copy/paste, but I'm not sure what the best approach would be. Trying to think of the problem (want to build up sounds from different elements on different keys/lanes) versus jumping to a solution.

[Urs]

I'd like to be able to do some basic layering and keyswitching in the lanes

As lanes can interact, things which are not audible still need to be processed. So I'm not so much in favour of any "switching", but I'm very much for pliable interaction. There'll be a lot more ways to dynamically change routings across lanes, and of course do so in relation to keys, velocity or any other kind of modulation.

Instead of thinking in terms of layers, I'd prefer to think in terms of components. If you have, say a hammer-type exciter on one lane and some noise-source on another, and maybe a membrane model further down on one lane and and some kind of body on another, a bit of dynamic mixing can get you either exciter on either resonator, and anywhere in-between.

[spunkmuffin]

Instead of thinking in terms of layers, I'd prefer to think in terms of components. If you have, say a hammer-type exciter on one lane and some noise-source on another, and maybe a membrane model further down on one lane and and some kind of body on another, a bit of dynamic mixing can get you either exciter on either resonator, and anywhere in-between.

Sounds yummy.
So just say I have a hammer-type exciter that I have tweaked to perfection and saved in lane 1 as preset A.
Then I have a noise source I create that sounds perfectly awful in lane 1 and save that as preset B.
I then create the best membrane model bongo ever on lane 1 and save that as preset C.
Will I be able to combine them in my dynamic mixer in Zebra3 and save it as preset X?

[EvilDragon]

I think Zebra gets it right with Osc presets to load up a set of waves, and MSEG presets. Combine that with presets for individual FX and FX Chains, and that pretty much covers 95% of my "module presets" needs in all honesty.

Don't forget arpeggiator presets!

[Urs]

Instead of thinking in terms of layers, I'd prefer to think in terms of components. If you have, say a hammer-type exciter on one lane and some noise-source on another, and maybe a membrane model further down on one lane and and some kind of body on another, a bit of dynamic mixing can get you either exciter on either resonator, and anywhere in-between.

Sounds yummy.
So just say I have a hammer-type exciter that I have tweaked to perfection and saved in lane 1 as preset A.
Then I have a noise source I create that sounds perfectly awful in lane 1 and save that as preset B.
I then create the best membrane model bongo ever on lane 1 and save that as preset C.
Will I be able to combine them in my dynamic mixer in Zebra3 and save it as preset X?

You can combine them as long as it doesn't exceed the available number of modules and slots. But you can not combine them by loading lane-based presets, as those won't exist.

I give you an example why that's bad anyway. It's very likely that two of your presets share very similar envelope settings. If you use presets, you'll have two envelopes around, even if they're doing the same thing. It's more economic, better, greater, all of it, to use just one envelope and crossfade between the differences by the same means you crossfade between the main sources. Or, use a modifier to get both modulations out of one.

[Ploki]

Do I need Zebra?
I'm on a recent u-he roll and suddenly Zebra looks interesting