Dune 3 vs. Hive 2

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Looks like Synapse has raised the bar.

Dual filters, dual ARPs, VA/WT/FM, and a nice waveform editor plus a lot of other goodies.

Playing with it now. Quite impressive.

I wonder how the finished version of Hive 2 will compare?

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The big difference I see right away is in the way the oscillators produce.

^^^ edit: I was wrong, dune can use math scripting too.

they sound slightly different and there is the workflow difference.
Last edited by Dasheesh on Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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I think Dune is more of an all-in-one design like synthmaster, Diversion or Zebra. Hive has to come out wanting in a comparison like this, seeing that it's much more focused in terms of oscillator and modulation capabilities.

Zebra, on the other hand, doesn't try to be fixed architecture, so that is probably unfair towards Dune.
..off to play with my music toys - library music production.
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Dasheesh wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:54 am The big difference I see right away is in the way the oscillators produce. Hive uses a special script that allows it to "manufacture" wavetables on the fly, on the other hand... Dune has always been about the audio rate, so it produces pre-determined wavetables at a very high quality.
I just checked a video about Dune 3 (dont have my computer by hand to test the plugin) and it seems you can also use mathematical scripts to generate Wavetables in the editor.

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I like a graphical wavetable editor like in Dune 3 much more than the way it is done in Hive.

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tony10000 wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:46 am Looks like Synapse has raised the bar.

Dual filters, dual ARPs, VA/WT/FM, and a nice waveform editor plus a lot of other goodies.

Playing with it now. Quite impressive.

I wonder how the finished version of Hive 2 will compare?
At least Dual filters is already in Hive 1. Also VA/WT with more WT/import coming in 1.2 soon.

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tony10000 wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:46 am I wonder how the finished version of Hive 2 will compare?
Fewer tabs, lean design, fast results and no 2373 cinematic sound banks.

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Urs wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:15 pm
tony10000 wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:46 am I wonder how the finished version of Hive 2 will compare?
Fewer tabs, lean design, fast results and no 2373 cinematic sound banks.
Meooow claws in kitty..... :lol:

Like two singers in a choir, Hive and Dune each have their own voices and sound great together. Most of my recent projects have at least one instance of both if not more.

So it makes perfect sense to own both. I don't think they compete as much as they complement.... :wink:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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That said, I just skimmed through the Dune manual. It's a very different approach than Hive, rather similar to "Serum with layers".
chk071 wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 pm I like a graphical wavetable editor like in Dune 3 much more than the way it is done in Hive.
Ok, I do not know Dune 3, but I sense that Hive will be seen as a lesser synth, as some already see it as a lesser synth than, say, Serum or Spire. Or whatever Arturia is gonna release.

Let me elaborate the point we're making with Hive:

I have always had the opinion that developers always tried to break into Sylenth' territory by adding "more". Hive came about because we figured that "less is more". We radically reduced the parameter set in comparison to Sylenth, and yet we got a more versatile and more accessible synth. It is furthermore my opinion that the success of Serum has similar reasons as Sylenth. It's the no frills, mostly tab free environment and a very balanced feature set. Again, Hive 2 might just prove that "less is more". It's for an audience which doesn't want to get lost in drawing wavetables which end up all sounding the same...

... because, as I said a few times, "visual wavetable editor" is a promise never kept. Good wavetables with nice harmonic sweeps never come from someone drawing 100+ frames with a mouse*. It's an illusion. What's more important are the algorithms which a) analyse sample content, b) create transitions between key waveforms or c) are formula based.

Now, I have yet to come across anything other than Alchemy which masters a). Wavetables extracted from samples are almost always just some "grainy bad samples" - they can be useful, but they're not exactly the pinnacle of synthesis. With Hive, we have however gotten a damn stronghold in b) and c). I doubt that anyone else has as good interpolation and morphing algorithms as we do, and I don't know of any synth which has an as comprehensive formula parser as we do. Not everathing has been revealed until today, but it will be for Hive 2. Hive 1.2 will be a nice step in that direction, coming out next week.

Now, if we can agree (your opinion my vary) that wavetable drawing is a mere gimmick (since, all you do is get lost and not much comes out of it), where does that leave the majority of wavetable aficionados? The most important thing is getting wavetable content from somewhere else, from the few people who master this stuff. And that's where all wavetable synths suddenly are all in the same boat. The strongest synth is the one which loads the most formats and has the best formula parser.

If only people weren't so easily drawn to illusions :clown:

- U

*hence the 16 wavetable boundary in Zebra with spline-based morphing. It's a manageable number and it's easy to make good harmonic sweeps. Plus, as of recently you can export them for Hive and Serum.

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Hey I look at it this way. Hive must be a great synth because another developer copied it nearly 1:1 :lol:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Teksonik wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:32 pm Hey I look at it this way. Hive must be a great synth because another developer copied it nearly 1:1 :lol:
I guess Richard had the same idea as we did: Add WT to an already great synth. Nothing wrong with that. I don't think the concept of Dune has changed otherwise, and neither has Hive's.

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tony10000 wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:46 am Looks like Synapse has raised the bar.

Dual filters, dual ARPs, VA/WT/FM, and a nice waveform editor plus a lot of other goodies.

Playing with it now. Quite impressive.

I wonder how the finished version of Hive 2 will compare?
I hope it doesn't compare.

Because of functionality, I wanted to like Dune 2. However, I found the workflow tedious. Too much functionality depends on a rather small and not fluid to work with mod matrix. Very powerful, but I did not find it fun/inspiring to use. Dune 3 looks basically unchanged in that way. Of course someone else may have a different view on the matter.

Hive has less functionality but is really fast and fun to use. Very different... and IMO should stay different :tu:

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Urs wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:59 pm... because, as I said a few times, "visual wavetable editor" is a promise never kept. Good wavetables with nice harmonic sweeps never come from someone drawing 100+ frames with a mouse*. It's an illusion. What's more important are the algorithms which a) analyse sample content, b) create transitions between key waveforms or c) are formula based.
drawing 3-5 frames is about the max usefulness...

The resynthesis in Icarus is for sure useful, however, my impression is that Dune 3 does not do this. (maybe it does but is just not clear in their descriptions)

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Urs wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:43 pm
Teksonik wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:32 pm Hey I look at it this way. Hive must be a great synth because another developer copied it nearly 1:1 :lol:
I guess Richard had the same idea as we did: Add WT to an already great synth. Nothing wrong with that. I don't think the concept of Dune has changed otherwise, and neither has Hive's.
Actually Dune 2 already had wavetables - it's just it's now got an editor built in too.

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I have both and I love both!! Beta tested Dune 3 and think it was looong but good road! The only wish I would have is to have had hard sync natively in Hive but I understand the omission of it. That being said I love the new sonic possibilities with the developments of hive. I have osc hard sync at least in Repro and Ace and Diva and Zebra CM. I suppose I will have to get Bazille or Zebra to get a more FM approach if I want a more Yamaha TX type sound

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