Is recording a guitar amp still necessary?

[Mats Eriksson]

I happen to be one of those who belongs to no camp. Not polarized. I find equally amounts of good use for amp sims and real amps. I use both equally as much. Scuffham amps S-Gear the most, but it's suited at traditionalists mostly. I am.

I am one of the few on the earth that thinks a real guitar amp (tube OR solid state) PLUS the guitar connected is a complete ONE instrument. The guitar can't do without the other. The cable from guitar to amp is - sort of - the seventh strings, or extra string if you'd like. Hendrix played the amp/guitar like it was one complete instrument. The guitar connected to the amp/cab renders a closed electronic circuit. It's not an instrument until it's connected and turned on and sound produced.

Also, legendary producer Richard Mullen (SRV, Eric Johnson et all) advised that guitarists should play in the same room as the amp cab due to the above reasons. If they were not in the same room, they tended to play ... worse, i e overplay, and not feeling the vibrations of the notes. Some great guitar sounds, and solos have been done anyway, through the mixing desk, and that surely rebutts the Mullen notion/stance.

I am a happy camper with each. Amp sims, and real amps alike. But I've found better results when trying to coax controlled feedback out of a real amp, which in turn requires a lot of volume, but I can control feedback better then, than sitting at the desk and cranking midfield monitors. Not all music requires that though, and those musical scenarios, when that is required, is far and between. Now the headphones with monitoring the rest of the music is enough "hearing protection" so to speak from the cranked amp in the room. And thus this is related with amp sims. You can sit in your bedroom and "crank" the amp sims with non-deafening levels. Which is the main reason I am using amp sims.

In studio, there's absolutely nothing that trumps amp sims, these days, in terms of the listener experience. Live though. I was at a blues jam the other week in a small pub/cafe and the guitarist had a 20w small Fender Vibro-something. LISTENING ONLY, from the audience. I didn't play at all. I was thinking about that sound it made. Not cranked, but a clean sound. Whenever highlighting dynamics, and low volume playing there was something immediate and intimate sensitivity that cut through without being abrasive or grating. Got my feathers about amp sims a bit ruffled, I have to confess.

Which boils down to that I think a real amp in the studio miked up running into the mic console adds it's own color to any real amp anyway, and takes away something of that. It doesn't sound the same as if you're in the room next to the cab. No matter how meticilously set up, and high end mics and gear, there's something that gets lost in translation. Others may call it transparency, but I don't. Every mic and mixing desk as well as studio monitors colors and filter things out anyway. No matter how small. Most of the times, it's so subtle that it is neglible. And that's why amp sims are a better bet. They do sound just like the recorded real amp anyway. You do have to EQ, compress, and modify it anyway so much in the end to fit into all the rest of the music, so it's a tad overkill these days I have to admit. Miking up real amps.

[ericj23]

I am jumping into a thread with a slightly off topic question. Sorry. However I get the feeling that those involved in the thread may well have some insight into my query.

Basically, I use some guitar pedals I have as FX on line level tracks from my DAW - I lower the output volume to avoid overloading the pedals. I then have Hi z input and preamp on my soundcard to bring them back to the right volume. It sounds pretty good.

Will using a proper reamp box on the way from the DAW help sound quality in a noticeable way? And if it does can anyone recommend an affordable one?

[HSum]

Hey guys, happy guitar month!

We'd like to take the chance and ask about your recording behaviour.

Is recording an amp or cabinet still necessary in times where profiling, amp simulations and IR plugins are available? And if so, how many microphones on average do you actually use to get the best results?

Looking forward to some interesting viewpoints or tips & tricks!

I was keyboarder in a hobbyists band and we always used to record the guitar. There was a noticable difference in sound and realism. Could also be that we only felt like that because recording the guitar resultet in a sound we were used to. Don't know the exact terms but we recorded the guitar direct and 2 mics from the speaker.

[Hermetech Mastering]

Strange question. I play well, have a nice guitar with a great setup, a nice hand built valve amp in a nice sounding room, a nice mic, a nice mic pre, and nice conversion. Why WOULDN'T I want to record that?

I can always run a parallel DI and Reamp chain, if I want to force second guessing on myself at a later date, but I usually prefer to get the playing and sound right at the source...

As for micing, I usually prefer just a single mono mic on the cab (KM84), I'll send a Reamped guitar signal through the amp, wear headphones, and scan the mic about for the best sound.

[mjudge55]

Strange question. I play well, have a nice guitar with a great setup, a nice hand built valve amp in a nice sounding room, a nice mic, a nice mic pre, and nice conversion. Why WOULDN'T I want to record that?

I can always run a parallel DI and Reamp chain, if I want to force second guessing on myself at a later date, but I usually prefer to get the playing and sound right at the source...

No, in that situation you’re right by all means. But say you don’t have the optimum setup for a given song, or say you want to try out several potential options and don’t have optimum conditions for each, then the flexibility of a sim starts making sense.

[Hermetech Mastering]

There's no denying the flexibility but I don't really think the sound is the same/as good. That's not to say they are not usable/canlt make great sounds etc. I've tried various Line6 devices over the years, and recently tried a Kemper for the first time. Stuck with the full rig. Just my opinion.

[Hink]

I am jumping into a thread with a slightly off topic question. Sorry. However I get the feeling that those involved in the thread may well have some insight into my query.

Basically, I use some guitar pedals I have as FX on line level tracks from my DAW - I lower the output volume to avoid overloading the pedals. I then have Hi z input and preamp on my soundcard to bring them back to the right volume. It sounds pretty good.

Will using a proper reamp box on the way from the DAW help sound quality in a noticeable way? And if it does can anyone recommend an affordable one?

I have had this from Radial for maybe 6 or 7 years, it does not degrade the tone at all and it's been well tested...helping the sound depends on what you while re-amping. I always record a dry signal direct from a Radial aby box. (plus up to 3 mics, the returns from my lexicon mx400 hw fx processor and direct from the line out on my amp so up to seven tracks total)

[Forgotten]

I think there are a lot of things that can be impactful, but probably the biggest impact could be from impedance mismatch. Any box that does a good job at matching impedance with your mixer or audio interface is going to get you over the biggest hurdle.

[ericj23]

I am jumping into a thread with a slightly off topic question. Sorry. However I get the feeling that those involved in the thread may well have some insight into my query.

Basically, I use some guitar pedals I have as FX on line level tracks from my DAW - I lower the output volume to avoid overloading the pedals. I then have Hi z input and preamp on my soundcard to bring them back to the right volume. It sounds pretty good.

Will using a proper reamp box on the way from the DAW help sound quality in a noticeable way? And if it does can anyone recommend an affordable one?

I have had this from Radial for maybe 6 or 7 years, it does not degrade the tone at all and it's been well tested...helping the sound depends on what you while re-amping. I always record a dry signal direct from a Radial aby box. (plus up to 3 mics, the returns from my lexicon mx400 hw fx processor and direct from the line out on my amp so up to seven tracks total)

That just looks just the ticket

Thanks

[cptgone]

I started in the 80s, playing guitar in a band. We only recorded once (apart from room recordings of rehearsals on a ITT SL58 portable casette recorder with autogain and built-in mic, lol). Seemed crazy to me at the time, all those mikes bleeding, an old rented PA, but it worked. Out of 5 songs, 4 had DI'ed guitar, which sounded worse (also, I had set my new Laney Linebacker Pro's gain too high).

In the 90s, I switched to computers, MIDI, and - soon - VST. Very rarely recorded guitar, always DI. Later on I recorded from my Line6 Flextone II amp's headphones output (it featured a cab sim, otherwise I'd have preferred to record clean, add VST later).

2 years ago I started making music again after a long hiatus. Added some guitar to a Cubase project, using a D.I.'ed electro-acoustic with both piezo and a built-in mic. Frustrating business, especially with the cheap electro-acoustic I used at first. That guitar sounds sweet, the piezo much less so.

Last few months, I've been using pedals for amps (hardware emulations of hardware, I'm surprised at myself). I've been using an AMT F1 (Fender Twin Reverb sim, cab sim) always on. It seems to bring out detail, and I figure it should make a good clean pedal platform (I have 70 pedals rigged up). Occasionally, I use other amp emulating pedals in front (Marshall and Vox emulations) for colour/dirt. I've been trying to emulate overdriving a clean amp (the F1) that way.
Not sure yet if I want an IR pedal or prefer to keep that virtual (the F1 has a cab sim on its louder output, but I read it can be improved upon).

[Hermetech Mastering]

I had the original Cuniberti Reamp, which was later bought by Radial and is still the same design, I believe. But I now use one by Orchid Electronics. Sounds just as good but is a fair bit cheaper:

http://orchid-electronics.co.uk/Amp_Interface.htm

[iliatilev]

I've recorded two EP's with amp sims and i love it. Recording with a real amp will be a nightmare for me

[reggie1979]

I've recorded two EP's with amp sims and i love it. Recording with a real amp will be a nightmare for me

Nice song!

[CapnLockheed]

Oh GAWD!! Yet another KVR apples vs oranges thread. There is no right or wrong here. Choices were more limited in the day but we still used every thing we could get our hands on. Granted a good amp sim is better than miking a shitty amp...BUT...I've yet to find any ampsim hard or soft, (and I own , have owned or tried pretty much all of them!), that can stand up to my '56 Vibrolux properly mic'd in a good room. That's not say I won't also use sims, direct console injection, reamping or other tricks on a tune. It all depends on what I think the SONG calls for. You can never have too many colors on your pallette.

Cheers.....CL

[rollasoc]

At home, I 99% record with an amp sim. But find I spend months then, changing the amp sim / effects / amp settings and generally not committing to something.

At my band's other guitarist's house, he normally makes me playthrough his amp, with pedals. So the
sound is worked out and then commited and not touched until mixing.

I do have two amps at home (a valve and a transistor amp), but living in a house with other people, who do not want to listen to me playing the same riff at volume over and over, so it is easier to use the amp sim. Ideally, I would record with the amp.