The Big Guitar Amp Sim Roundup + Review

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

The Deacy amp was used mostly on overdubs and multi parts harmony guitars, to mimick big band sounds, like trumpets, clarinets, trombones, saxes and whatever. I never heard of any use of the Deacy amp live. The "Thsck" attack can be heard on Queen "Live Killers" album when he plays Brighton Rock solo live.

Yes, I noted that the Deacy was used in the studio. I don't think I implied it was used for any of the main rhythm parts etc either. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[dbender]

I had also meant to touch on this topic too:

Amp sims are NOT plug and play. Just as many people will say an amp sim is a piece of garbage as will say it sounds just like the real thing. My experience is that whoever designed an amp sim’s presets probably doesn’t play the same guitar as you, use the same strings, have the same pickup, play with the same pick, practice the same playing style, or has the same taste in music. So if you decide whether a sim is any good based on whether you like the presets, that’s kind of like thinking the photos on an online dating site actually represent what you’re going to see.

For me, the first thing that came to mind is a challenge we've seen with AmpliTube. I'll even keep it specific to the cabinets and microphones for simplicity (plus it is absolutely the best example of this).

Basically, when we introduced the full 3D microphone positioning of the Cab Room, it was essentially a case where we may have given too much flexibility. This isn't meant to insult users, as I know there are plenty of power users and people who know the topic of putting microphones in front of speaker cabinets like the back of their hand. However, we serve a large market of guitar players and there's a large portion of that market who have zero experience or knowledge doing this. But, like many guitar players, they do want to play around with s**t because it can be a lot of fun.

This has been taken into consideration for the future of AmpliTube as we never want to set anybody up for failure (or the more morbid saying if you give someone enough rope they'll end up hanging him/herself). There's definitely room for what I wouldn't want to call compromise, because the best solution will not take anything away from either/any type of user. We'd also avoid doing that whenever possible. I personally love the flexibility but I do know a thing or two about miking a cabinet. Many don't or don't want to mess with it, which is also fair, so we can also continue to distill that knowledge - for example with the default mic placement and matched cabinet choices - for those that want as close to plug and play as they can get, even if Craig is 100% correct that amp sims are not plug and play.

Peter - reading this caused me some alarm that full 3D microphone positioning of the Cab Room might be eliminated in upcoming versions of Amplitube.

PLEASE DON'T DO THAT AND KEEP IT!! The full 3D microphone positioning of the Cab Room is insanely great!!! It would very seriously bum me and many many others out if it gets removed, which would be a very serious downgrade.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

I had also meant to touch on this topic too:

Amp sims are NOT plug and play. Just as many people will say an amp sim is a piece of garbage as will say it sounds just like the real thing. My experience is that whoever designed an amp sim’s presets probably doesn’t play the same guitar as you, use the same strings, have the same pickup, play with the same pick, practice the same playing style, or has the same taste in music. So if you decide whether a sim is any good based on whether you like the presets, that’s kind of like thinking the photos on an online dating site actually represent what you’re going to see.

For me, the first thing that came to mind is a challenge we've seen with AmpliTube. I'll even keep it specific to the cabinets and microphones for simplicity (plus it is absolutely the best example of this).

Basically, when we introduced the full 3D microphone positioning of the Cab Room, it was essentially a case where we may have given too much flexibility. This isn't meant to insult users, as I know there are plenty of power users and people who know the topic of putting microphones in front of speaker cabinets like the back of their hand. However, we serve a large market of guitar players and there's a large portion of that market who have zero experience or knowledge doing this. But, like many guitar players, they do want to play around with s**t because it can be a lot of fun.

This has been taken into consideration for the future of AmpliTube as we never want to set anybody up for failure (or the more morbid saying if you give someone enough rope they'll end up hanging him/herself). There's definitely room for what I wouldn't want to call compromise, because the best solution will not take anything away from either/any type of user. We'd also avoid doing that whenever possible. I personally love the flexibility but I do know a thing or two about miking a cabinet. Many don't or don't want to mess with it, which is also fair, so we can also continue to distill that knowledge - for example with the default mic placement and matched cabinet choices - for those that want as close to plug and play as they can get, even if Craig is 100% correct that amp sims are not plug and play.

Peter - reading this caused me some alarm that full 3D microphone positioning of the Cab Room might be eliminated in upcoming versions of Amplitube.

PLEASE DON'T DO THAT AND KEEP IT!! The full 3D microphone positioning of the Cab Room is insanely great!!! It would very seriously bum me and many many others out if it gets removed, which would be a very serious downgrade.

Not at all!! I did not mean to cause alarm. I tried to mention this as not even a compromise but a best of both worlds. We can offer the best placement (or let us at least agree to call these "oft used" placements) to those that don't know or care much about infinite mic placement while still allowing for maximum flexibility for power users. Please don't worry! So sorry about that!!

[dbender]

I had also meant to touch on this topic too:

Amp sims are NOT plug and play. Just as many people will say an amp sim is a piece of garbage as will say it sounds just like the real thing. My experience is that whoever designed an amp sim’s presets probably doesn’t play the same guitar as you, use the same strings, have the same pickup, play with the same pick, practice the same playing style, or has the same taste in music. So if you decide whether a sim is any good based on whether you like the presets, that’s kind of like thinking the photos on an online dating site actually represent what you’re going to see.

For me, the first thing that came to mind is a challenge we've seen with AmpliTube. I'll even keep it specific to the cabinets and microphones for simplicity (plus it is absolutely the best example of this).

Basically, when we introduced the full 3D microphone positioning of the Cab Room, it was essentially a case where we may have given too much flexibility. This isn't meant to insult users, as I know there are plenty of power users and people who know the topic of putting microphones in front of speaker cabinets like the back of their hand. However, we serve a large market of guitar players and there's a large portion of that market who have zero experience or knowledge doing this. But, like many guitar players, they do want to play around with s**t because it can be a lot of fun.

This has been taken into consideration for the future of AmpliTube as we never want to set anybody up for failure (or the more morbid saying if you give someone enough rope they'll end up hanging him/herself). There's definitely room for what I wouldn't want to call compromise, because the best solution will not take anything away from either/any type of user. We'd also avoid doing that whenever possible. I personally love the flexibility but I do know a thing or two about miking a cabinet. Many don't or don't want to mess with it, which is also fair, so we can also continue to distill that knowledge - for example with the default mic placement and matched cabinet choices - for those that want as close to plug and play as they can get, even if Craig is 100% correct that amp sims are not plug and play.

Peter - reading this caused me some alarm that full 3D microphone positioning of the Cab Room might be eliminated in upcoming versions of Amplitube.

PLEASE DON'T DO THAT AND KEEP IT!! The full 3D microphone positioning of the Cab Room is insanely great!!! It would very seriously bum me and many many others out if it gets removed, which would be a very serious downgrade.

Not at all!! I did not mean to cause alarm. I tried to mention this as not even a compromise but a best of both worlds. We can offer the best placement (or let us at least agree to call these "oft used" placements) to those that don't know or care much about infinite mic placement while still allowing for maximum flexibility for power users. Please don't worry! So sorry about that!!

Great, thanks Peter. PS I am loving Modo Drums so far

[Anderton]

I did not mean to cause alarm. I tried to mention this as not even a compromise but a best of both worlds. We can offer the best placement (or let us at least agree to call these "oft used" placements) to those that don't know or care much about infinite mic placement while still allowing for maximum flexibility for power users. Please don't worry! So sorry about that!!

I hope my comment about the miking section being like a flight simulator doesn't get lost in the discussion. This is something I've demoed a lot at seminars. Having miked many amps in my time, AmpliTube can really get across the basic variations that come from different mics and positions. If someone had never miked an amp in a studio before but practiced with AmpliTube for several hours, they could come into the studio with a reasonable degree of confidence about miking.

[Forgotten]

Having miked many amps in my time, AmpliTube can really get across the basic variations that come from different mics and positions. If someone had never miked an amp in a studio before but practiced with AmpliTube for several hours, they could come into the studio with a reasonable degree of confidence about miking.

I think that's true, and probably true of Guitar Rig and other software.

The only thing that guitar amps can't really teach you is about isolation, reflections, damping, etc. Sometimes you have to do something to compensate for the room, or you're forced to do some isolation when the basic track is recorded live, and I've seen all kinds of things put behind the mic to change the sound with reflections - tiles, thin steel plates, buckets, trash cans, etc.

Maybe one day someone will integrate all of that into an amp sim. Who knows?

[reggie1979]

I think I do pretty good with verb and mic'ing within amp sim "a" for example. The problem is for me again, is high gain solo's and having it sit in a mix. Crunch? AT4 does that in spades.

[Forgotten]

The problem is for me again, is high gain solo's and having it sit in a mix.

Have you tried a parallel signal with crunch but not high gain? Blend them together and you might find they sit better in a mix because of the increased clarity of each note (although you might have to notch out more of any rhythm guitar parts).

[Hewitt Huntwork]

I have lots of modelers and lots of thoughts on modelers. But my primary one is this: I want a piece of hardware that has a tube preamp, 3 band tone stack, and a simple compressor to plug my guitar into before it goes into my modeler. Those 3 things bring every modeler to life, and I can never seem to find one single unit that does it simply and well.

[reggie1979]

The problem is for me again, is high gain solo's and having it sit in a mix.

Have you tried a parallel signal with crunch but not high gain? Blend them together and you might find they sit better in a mix because of the increased clarity of each note (although you might have to notch out more of any rhythm guitar parts).

maybe not, but this is the second time it's been mentioned, so maybe I should.

[Mats Eriksson]

I agree with too much flexibility. I dabbled with the then new Room mic in Guitar Rig 4, and I found them like they always ended up in a sweet spot, and as fast as you played in another area of the neck on guitar, it showed dead spots, and phase cancellations. I think one can't learn about IRL room acoustics in a studio, if trying it out first in a amp sim. You have to adapt to the new situation whenever faced with a new room.

It slowly dawned on me, that all these variations and abilities to change mic positions, or grid configs inside any tube (Peavey revalver) is an obfuscation, and certain manufacturers trumps the detailed configuration as a major trait, and advantages.

Mostly in IRL situations, both studio and live, no one uses more than one mic for guitar amps. It's only when miking up acoustic drum kits, that 3D miking can come into play, somewhat. On bass, it's always direct because you can't get rid of the standing room waves occuring. I remember once I was i a studion session at a posh big time studio, and they trid to mic up the bass amp. It all ended up sounding woofy and downright goofy with all the standing waves, comb filter artifacts, and they moved around the mikes to get rid of that, but then it occured in some other spots. Several hours wasted.

If the sound is great and nailed in the first place, it sits well in the mix, the at the mix process later down, you just dabble with EQ, room ambience from reverb plugins, and compression/limiting. Just like for every other instrument. Or ultimately, you shouldn't need to at all.

[Mats Eriksson]

Isn't it somewhat like, that the amp sim makers are clandestine, and coy about their shortcomings and tries to fill their next versions with superficial bling (soundwise) instead? They know they can't do anything more or better the front end of the sound, so they have to go for editing and offering possibilities in twinker the tail end of the sound to no end? Like reverbs. You know all too well, that synth manufacturers (hardware) had their demos preset, with all kind of post-processing especially reverb, and when you cut off the reverb, delays, and effects, and listened to the dry sound it wasn't all that impressive.

[Mats Eriksson]

It's always funny to have people sell things when the player is what makes the sound. EJ is going to sound like EJ pretty much no matter what imo.

Yes of course, but what I wanted to point out, with the first bloke trying it out, is that most people don't know how to instantly adapt to a new sound they are faced with, and exposed to the first time around. And if they don't have instant gratification, they diss it big time, immediately without working on it. That sound couldn't be better no matter how savvy you are in 3D microphone techniques of miking up any amps, studio or live.

I am the first to confess that if I tried it out the same way, as the bloke above, trying them all out, I would absolutely not be able to make anything out of that sound either. Same if EJ would hand me over his guitar from his original huge rig, with that lead sound in the patch. Fender strat with single coils that hums to no end into a Marshall 100W plexi, DIMED, CRANKED, and even a delay system put IN BEFORE, plus spring reverb, a Butler BK Tube driver pedal, and the pre amp from the Echoplex unit. It would be a major chore first dodging and try to mute and dampening all this storm of wild noises being magnified ten-thousandfold, before you even managed to pick a note on the string that was of any kind of decency. I e some sounds we can't simply adapt to at all, without serious woodshedding and honing, because the sound contains too much stray noises that interferes with ones playing, so we can't coax anything viable out of it. Most high gain sounds are like that too.

But that video comparison I made, is that two people faced with the exact same sound, reacts and plays and it sounds too different anyway. Hammers down my earlier stance, that the amp/guitar is ONE instrument really, when it all boils down. That bloke who demonstrated the differneces between the tone capsules, suddenly stumbled upon a new instrument, with an all new sound, that he couldn't cope with it, but to someone who has learned "that instruments sound" knows how to pick, and how not to pick in order for it to sound ... unique.

- - - - - - - -

in order for comparison, you can take any keyboard player with a synth that has all these great samples, and presets of different sounds. Whenever calling up an organ patch they guy's still trying to play piano, or vice versa. They don't know how to play the sounds hitting them.

[telecode]

Isn't it somewhat like, that the amp sim makers are clandestine, and coy about their shortcomings and tries to fill their next versions with superficial bling (soundwise) instead? They know they can't do anything more or better the front end of the sound, so they have to go for editing and offering possibilities in twinker the tail end of the sound to no end? Like reverbs. You know all too well, that synth manufacturers (hardware) had their demos preset, with all kind of post-processing especially reverb, and when you cut off the reverb, delays, and effects, and listened to the dry sound it wasn't all that impressive.

Presets are always over the top and too flashy. Usually unusuable in music making.

I think there is definitely room for improvement in amp Sims. Looking forward to what the makers come up with next.

[SLiC]

I have lots of modelers and lots of thoughts on modelers. But my primary one is this: I want a piece of hardware that has a tube preamp, 3 band tone stack, and a simple compressor to plug my guitar into before it goes into my modeler. Those 3 things bring every modeler to life, and I can never seem to find one single unit that does it simply and well.

Have you looked at the Laney Iornheart Pulse? I have great success with this as I posted earlier in this thread.