The Big Guitar Amp Sim Roundup + Review

Interactive, forum-based, in-depth reviews, tips, tutorials and more.
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS
Amplifikation Caliburn AmpliTube 4 Axiom GrindMachine Guitar Rig Pro Helix Native S-Gear TH-U Premium Trash 2

Post

Anderton wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:28 am Yet there's a whole subculture that thinks vinyl sounds "better" than digital.
Yeah, that goes together with the old adage (proverb) that humbucker pickup inventor Seth Lover, said once, I think it should be a perfect sticky:

"I hear musicians complaining about this or that sound, in a pickup and I couldn't hear it. Then I hear something that bothers the hell out of me, but they can't hear it. You hear something I don't, and I hear something you don't, what the hell are we going to do?"

No better words than there...

It boils down to anything with real amps as well as amp sims too.

The vinyl thing that sounds better are loathed by audiophiles these days. Most comparisons are done to digital CD, and contains MUCH electric music, or even electronice music, save for vocals. So no one can stand a chance in the world to compare to anything as very few of us where there in the studio while the band, artist recorded it. How did it sound from the start on? Live? Very few audiophiles plays instruments for real, and goes for nit picky anal details in the sound.

Very few comparisons are made between recorded music and LIVE ACOUSTIC music. They just keep on comparing between different media, tape, cd, vinyl, CD/DVD-A digital memory. Now, the thing that people missing out on whenever talking "better" with vinyl, is that - as you put it - quotation marks.

No vinyl these days can be cranked up into the "loudness wars" of mastering studio recordings. You can't have brickwall limiter compression that raises the bass levels to 0 db output. The needle of a vinyl record player would derail big time. So have to be "easy" on the compressors/limiters for "tax it to the max". You have to even turn down the bass when the needle hits the last song on the innermost tracks of a vinyl. That's why they very often had ballads at the end of each vinyl side.

This is what I can very well relate to and know what they mean "better" these days. That there are a lot of scratches and pops and clicks, doesn't matter. It's the sound that isn't pressed to limits. Which is impossible to achieve on vinyl. I e in spite of all dynamics lacking on a vinyl, they can bring up the dynamics to that level that vinyl is capable of anyway. Once they saw that CD or digital can have greater dynamics, but you can raise the levels with compressors to 0 db output on all frequencies they could, and did. Just because you can you shouldn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listener_fatigue

Introduction of artifacts in audio material
"Musicality, especially on the radio, contains musical aspects (timbre, emotional impact, melody), and artifacts that arise from non-musical aspects (soundstaging, dynamic range compression sonic balance). The introduction of these sonic artifacts affects the balance between these musical and non-musical aspects. When the volume of music is higher, these artifacts become more apparent, and because they are uncomfortable for the ear, cause listeners to "tune out" and lose focus or become tired. These listeners may then unconsciously avoid that type of music, or the radio station they may have heard it on."

Post

Mats Eriksson wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:40 pm
telecode wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:29 pm I look at sims as a totally different beast than real amps. Basically, I don't expect them to be or do the same thing as real amps.
That was my take on it too.
But as long as they are called "amp sims", doing the same things as real amps is their intended function. Don't let them off the hook that easy.

Post

So, let’s talk about live/stage use. What is everyone using to make it work as easy as possible? Has anyone found any headless solutions that don’t require a computer screen and a mouse?
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.

Post

IMO, Sims also don't feel like a real amp.
I look at sims as a totally different beast than real amps. Basically, I don't expect them to be or do the same thing as real amps.
Feeling is indeed something that is often missing and gives you a hard time recording thru software. That's why we have worked a lot on the dynamics response of our modeler and made the presets guitar in hand: it is a completely different thing to get the right guitar tone on pre-recorded tracks while mixing and to get both the right feeling and tone while playing the instrument. And if you want to be inspired, you usually want that "amp in the room" feeling.

However, another thing that makes a huge difference when using software instead of a good old guitar amp is your monitoring system: you will have a hard time getting the right feeling with studio monitors (but it is feasible), and it is just impossible with headphones.

But if you play straight into a FRFR cabinet (or a guitar cabinet with proper compensation), you should be able to get that sensation, provided that you use the right piece of software that fits your need: as its was said earlier in this thread, tone and feeling are very different for everyone, so you have to take time to choose the simulation that works for your and tweak it to your taste.

Post

I demoed extensively Amplitube 3 and 4 as well as S-Gear and also went back and forth between Guitar Rig 5. I can hear a big difference between them all actually. I can even hear a huge difference between Amplitube 3 and 4. If I am hearing things correctly, Amplitube 4 seems to be centered all around this "3D microphone placement" processing engine. When I compare the exact same preset found in both 3 and 4, the preset in 3 sounds more "in you face" where as in 4, it sounds both slightly weaker in output and has this spacial processed quality to it. You can compensate for it by tweaking output level and other settings. (As I said, this is what it sounds like to my neophyte ears and I don't know much about computer software programming that is used to make guitar amp sims. I am basing it all on my experience playing guitar and hearing amps).

To my ears, I am hearing that Amplitube sounds "the most" kind of like a "good" tube amp if you were to put a "decent" microphone to it. But it doesn't actually sound like a real high end tube amp mike with a high end microphone. If you actually go to a music store and try a high end Fender Vibroverb or Mashall Stack I am pretty sure you will hear and feel the difference. I get the impression it all comes down to what kind of gear you have at home and your ability to record it. If you have a shitty tube amp and shitty mike -- you are going to only get what they can product, so a product like amplitube probably isn't a bad idea. But if you have high end gear, and the facilities to record it properly at high volumes, and you are going for that "tubey" guitar sound, I think Amplitube is probably a great solution at a really good price.

From a personal preference and aestetic, i kind of prefer the sound of Guitar Rig 5. I don't know if its because I am just used to it and its flaws or because I am going into it using it with the mindset that I don't want it to try to sound like a real amp and want it to sound like its a recorded electric guitar that was generated and performed on a computer software. Maybe thats why I think I prefered the sounds in Ampltube 3 -- because they are a little lesser of attempts to sound like real tube amps.

Just my feedback and experience.
🌐 Spotify 🔵 Soundcloud 🌀 Soundclick

Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt

Post

audiojunkie wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:59 pm So, let’s talk about live/stage use. What is everyone using to make it work as easy as possible? Has anyone found any headless solutions that don’t require a computer screen and a mouse?
In my research recently, "if" I were still playing live (which I am not really, i would get a kemper stage. i am old school and would want to go romping around on a dark stage collecting as little as possible of laptops and cables and adapters.
🌐 Spotify 🔵 Soundcloud 🌀 Soundclick

Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt

Post

One thing that I do to increase the sense of playing an amp is to have a third monitor speaker for when tracking guitar. This allows me to play at and into the speaker to control feedback, rather than playing through my main monitors. I have it set up in my control room, behind me and facing the main monitors.

Post

Blue Cat Audio wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:05 pm Feeling is indeed something that is often missing and gives you a hard time recording thru software.
Feeling is elusive, and very very not objective or neutral. I can attest to this, that feeling is a very blunt exprssesion. I can tell that "feeling" changes even when I have miked up a real amp in a studio booth, and goes out to the control room and here the miked up sound through the monitor. You hear it takes away the delicate, intimate immediacy (if that's a word). The response, and especially if I should slant the pick the slightest, the small nuance is covered, camouflaged and a slight "veil" of sound.

Now, you're right about headphones. If there ever was something that gives any amp a bad rep (IRL) it's even monitoring IRL tube amps (no matter how good), through headphones.

I remember the early days of hardware amp sims "pedals" and racks. The pods. Line6 basically started it all succesfully, and then on the backwater came Behringer V-amp (first version 2001) with it's blue way cheaper totally knock-off or rip-off. The V-amp. Mind you, even got rave reviews from Sound-On-Sound magazine. I happened to work part time in one of the last local music shops in my town, and that one came in, and I should take it home over the weekend, to figure out the ins and outs of it, and make a good demo of it if it came to that.

Now, I had to fire it up at night and use headphones. They were posh luxory high end AKG ones, and all impedance and so on worked perfectly with the headphones, no excessive noise. Now, having dabbled with it for hours, at MODEST VOLUME LEVELS, I finally got tired, and went to bed. I found it really good, especially effects, and was immediately impressed.

Then I discovered that I suffered from some sort of digital noise hangover, for in the midst of all silence in the bedroom, I heard something of that a moth was flying around inside my head, or ears. I hallucinated hearing things. Instead of tinnitus, or noise hangover from being at a too loud hard rock concert, it was some flutter, aliasing, digital haze phase, fluttering around. I had to turn on the light and get up from my bed and think "this is not happening, it must've been a dream, in the wake of between sleep and awake". No but I heard it as I entered the kitchen. I could not sleep for a few hours, but I did not try anything out with headphones ever again. The next time I heard anyone else trying out the Behringer V-amp through regular speakers (PA) in the shop, I immediately heard those haunting moths flutter about "inside the sound". Psychoacoustics perhaps. They use a lot to mask certain digital artifacts today for sure. Only if you're exposed to it a lot, you will start to unconciousy be aware, but you can't pinpoint it, since it's not tangible. One can't explain it. You can't explain your tinnitus to someone else that hasn't got it. Something in that vein.

It all hasn't to do with digital as such. I've heard studio engineers listening to demo tapes of bands, and within a split second they asked the band "You used a Sans-Amp from Tech-21 didn't you?" and the band were embarrased with the nailing of the gear they used, and they proudly, and astonished answered "yeah, yeah you're right, how could you guess? Yes that's the one we used!" to which the engingeer just sighed and replied "please don't". Even analog solid state gets in the way, eventually.

Post

It's the electricity. The lizards have got to it. That's why I run all my gear off water.

Post

donkey tugger wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:36 pm It's the electricity. The lizards have got to it. That's why I run all my gear off water.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u4GS2gHQV4

Post

donkey tugger wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:36 pm It's the electricity. The lizards have got to it. That's why I run all my gear off water.
Man, you're just being a pawn in the international lizard conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Post

I just ran a lizard out of the house!

Post

Unaspected wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:51 am
Jafo wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:02 pm Yeah, it's power amp saturation that we old dudes are after, and which largely disappeared in the '90s. I've tried putting compressors before and after ampsims to get much of that feel; it's a definite improvement, but it just isn't the same. I got the best results with ThrillseekerLA and the exe ampsims (which ISTR also modeled poweramp saturation), but I claim no competencies. Anybody with an actual gear budget (and decent ears) try this sort of thing?
I suggested placing True Iron between the amp head and cab earlier in the thread but I'm not sure anyone noticed.
I did. Since I am a customer for their now extinct (Karzog) Recabinet (one of the first ones to include Dynamics) this post wetted my apptetite and I downloaded their free demo, which is a "silence every 3 minutes" kind of thing. Now, transformers should be part of any amp sim anyway, and very little use for adding another "big iron" transformer on top. It sounds great, but I can't help but think it's a kind of compression/limiting going on in certain freq areas. You can get same results with a tweaking of a sidechaing compressor for certain frequencies. And when they crush they just produces dangerous flat square waves which are dangerous to speakers. Luckily, having these ones in virtual world, doesn't fry some speaker cones.

The stance/opinion that "Big Iron" in any tube guitar amps power sections yields big sound no doubt, and transformers are producing "flyback" currents back and forth between the speaker and transformer output when taxed. However, when it comes to guitar power amps, I think "big iron" sounds that makes it fattter, and more beefy is JUST an advantage when it comes to bass guitar amps and speakers, or electric basses. It's the low end that stays clear up into louder decibels. Connected with appropriate speaker cabs it can yield some greater results on bass. In my opinion the big iron produces more clean headroom, less power amp sag and saturation, and it's sort of ...defeats the purpose for guitar. Everything from the guitar input to the results you hear from the speaker(s) is relative to the end result. So just having the big iron in the output isn't the only factor. Or relying on any "true iron". Karzogs True Iron is maybe a small niche plugin, for those taking the easy way out. Maybe used to subtle sidechain when mastering any material in total, or bass drums or bass guitar mixes.

Found it of very little use in between any amp sim and cab. A transformer added on top of another already existing one. I even tried to coax it in between Amplitubes Ampeg V-4 rig they produced a decade ago or so. To no help. That one is "already built in" so to speak. The thing with these is that you don't NEED to turn it up as you have to IRL. That's my main thing with amp sims, you don't need deafening levels
Last edited by Mats Eriksson on Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Post

Anderton wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:45 am And frankly, I have a bigger problem - the last Windows update bricked my studio computer. So now I have to figure out how to get it working again.
The last update on my Fender Twin UltraLinear* Reverb, was replacing tubes after 30 years. Didn't brick anything. No drivers, no care for 32 bit or 64 bit plugins, no care for AU, VST, VST3 or AAX, no care for OSx, or Win versions. I can record that amp into anyone of these...

:wink:

[sorry couldn't resist]

Half serious, half tounge in cheek...

*Now we're talking "big iron" or "true iron" transformers!

Post

After more than a half century of playing electric guitars through various setups, my first was a 1960's Armaco 20 watt PA-Amplifier hooked up to a 1930's shortwave console with a 10 or 12 inch speaker; I have to say I prefer the latest guitar amp sims.

I never held on to any "real" amp for very long; even the Hiwatt DR 103 head lasted only about 3 months. I also owned only one solid state amp; an old Kustom K200 "Tuck-And-Roll" which lasted a few weeks.

None of the countless amps I have had over the years kept me entertained as much as the Overloud TH-U, AmpliTube 4 or Blue Cat's Axiom amp sims. Variety is the spice of life; and the latest amp sims provide the variety I never had using actual gear; I never had the space for over a hundred amps and a few hundred pedals!

Post Reply

Return to “KVR Experts”