Considering a Linnstrument

[letribs]

Hello,

I've been playing an Ableton Push(v2) for about 3 years.
My primary motivation for the purchase was the isomorphic note layout.
I had considered a Linnstrument before hand, but as an Ableton user,
the added Live functionality on the Push was something I couldn't overlook.

It's great and has definitely transformed my writing process and workflow,
but I am now in the market for something that is geared towards performance.

I strictly play in chromatic mode. A big issue for me with the push is the note center spacing is widened to accommodate various usages (I'd assume pad drumming the main culprit). Playing chords in certain positions just isn't ergonomic for me, and the 8x8 grid makes progressions a mixed vertical and horizontal affair. While good common tone voice leading generally calls for limited movement, I still want the ability to produce root movement in an intuitive horizontal manner (similar to a piano) while preserving access to vertical 3nps/4nps style guitar scales from any root.

Although there is some redundancy in the note values, I am under the impression that the 200 pad Linnstrument would afford the flexibility I'm after (MPE being the icing on the cake).

I live in Montreal QC, and I've yet to find a retailer that carries a demo.
I looked into technosynths but couldn't find any contact info, and I'm not even sure
they have a brick and mortar outlet.

Anybody having experience with both controllers, your comparisons would be of great value to me, and I would definitely appreciate it.

As a side, Roger if you read this, I just want to say I'm thankful for your innovations with respect to music technology. I don't think we would be where we are if you hadn't had the drive to bring all of these products to market. You're truly a pioneer and you have routinely extended that opportunity to the musicians of the world. :

[Roger_Linn]

Hi letribs,

Thank you for your interest in LinnStrument, as well as for your kind compliment.

Technosynth's web site (accessed on my site from the STORE/DEALERS menu > DEALER LIST) lists a phone number (514-814-3484) and email address (info@technosynth.com). If they've sold out, please email me at support@rogerlinndesign.com and I suspect that one of the 11 LinnStrument owners in Montreal would be willing to show you his.

Regarding pad size, LinnStrument's finger-sized note pad's are optimized for note and chord play. By comparison, my Tempest drum machine has larger pads optimized for drumbeat play. Push's pad size is somewhere in the middle, and some find them too large for one-handed voicing of popular chords or scales. I think the answer is different musical interfaces for different needs. For example, the Haken Continuum presents all notes in one continuous line, which provides a much greater Y-axis range at the expense of the perceived advantages of overlapping rows.

[letribs]

Thanks for the prompt response.

I've given your product a fair amount of consideration. I would really like to determine if the dimensions and added range would be optimal.

I'm in no way trying to undervalue the push, but in my case the note spacing compounded with a lack of mechanical feedback makes consistent dynamics hard to achieve while arpeggiating chords or sequencing scales. I assume that the pads on the linnstrument aren't going to be drastically different in terms of compressibility, but the way I see it, the less attention I dedicate to contorting my hands, the more attention I can dedicate to controlling velocity.

Also in some cases, the overlapping of the hands obfuscates vision and feels unnatural. I assume that having extra octaves on the x-axis can separate the hands, but not to the point where visual attention is extremely divided (18,7.5").

I'll msg technosynths
Bugging people is kinda cool (also weird ), so thanks but I'm bashful.
Tc

[Roger_Linn]

LinnStrument's rubber touch surface feels pretty hard because it's only 2mm thick (for most accurate finger position sensing and maximum touch sensitivity), so there's simply not that much to compress. I'd say that soft surfaces like the Roli give useful tactile feedback when playing pressure-based sounds, but can be less desirable when playing rhythmic parts that a harder surface like LinnStrument. Both have their merits depending on the style of play. I'd say LinnStrument players generally find the surface hardness good for all types of play. That said, there was a recent thread on this forum in which a few players expressed a desire for a softer surface. I'm checking into options for this and if I come up with something, it would be a user-installable retrofit for a reasonable cost.

[hariossa]

I've been playing an Ableton Push(v2) for about 3 years.
My primary motivation for the purchase was the isomorphic note layout.
I had considered a Linnstrument before hand, but as an Ableton user,
the added Live functionality on the Push was something I couldn't overlook.

You are definitely going to love the Linnstrument, because it feels and behaves like a real instrument, not just a controller, the point is that you're going to have to use a workaround to be able to use MPE in Ableton, it seems like they are not going to implement it in the near future. Of course you can always use the Linnstrument in "one channel mode" but once you try MPE you certainly don't want to go back. On the other side Linnstrument and Bitwig are a match made in heaven...

[letribs]

Nope, sorry Roger not interested in your competitors stuff .
My rhythmic bar is set at up-tempo fusion and prog.
I demoed a seaboard and squishy won't cut it.
To each their own, all great innovations.

I think offering a softer surface alternative would be in service of the community but logistically challenging (what do I know though).

What I miss about key-based instruments is the counter-weight or spring imparted tactile response. I want to believe that with consistent practice that sense of timing and velocity/pressure can be acquired on these flatter static surfaces.

you are definitely going to love the Linnstrument, because it feels and behaves like a real instrument, not just a controller, the point is that you're going to have to use a workaround to be able to use MPE in Ableton, it seems like they are not going to implement it in the near future. Of course you can always use the Linnstrument in "one channel mode" but once you try MPE you certainly don't want to go back. On the other side Linnstrument and Bitwig are a match made in heaven...

Thanks for the heads up, I've definitely considered this. Assuming that the linnstrument has the build quality I'm after, I would be using 8-track Bitwig until Ableton gets their shit together. I think they can work together in a studio recording context, although its nice to use one DAW most of the time .

[Tj Shredder]

After getting used to playing the LinnStrument, I don't want a softer surface any more! The demand for the moving keys is coming out of being used to it with keyboards. The LinnStrument is just different. You will learn to control it, and might come to the same conclusion as I did, its perfect and much better than those simple switches of keyboards and also much better than those soft touches of a Seaboard. (My Seaboard block just broke its not even close to being as sturdy as a LinnStrument...)

[waraukaeru]

I've used the Push, and I came to LinnStrument after using a Novation Launchpad Pro for a while. The Launchpad, like the Push, has slightly squishy silicone pads and the velocity really feels like a hitting an electronic drum pad, not at all like keyboard velocity. I preferred the square pads on the Launchpad to the Push's rectangular pads.

To the LinnStrument's credit, it feels nothing like an electronic drum pad. The velocity sensing is more conducive to pressing the cells, and feels natural with simply a finger tap, unlike the Push and the Launchpad's need for the pads to really be "struck". I find pressing a note at my intended volume is much easier on the LinnStrument, and especially so when the generator I am playing is properly responsive to channel pressure/aftertouch and release velocity parameters. It's certainly more predictable than the Push or Launchpad.

I was quite surprised by how small the cells are on the LinnStrument's grid. Noticeably smaller than the Launchpad, so quite a bit smaller than the Push. Roger is right though, he designed them to be an optimal size for finger tips. Once accustomed to it, I wouldn't go back. It also took some time to get used to how hard it is. On first touch, I thought it was solid. It's also quite slippery. With time I've come to realize that it does compress and flex in subtle ways, and I've come to regard it as feeling kind of like a really tightly tuned drum, like a high-pitched Tabla (the small right-hand drum, not the dugga). Actually, as a Tabla player, I've come to find that the LinnStrument really embodies what I didn't know I wanted out of a melodic instrument.

I think you will enjoy the LinnStrument. I bought mine without having tried one in person, and I am in love with the thing. Roger's return policy is very good, so why not just go for it?

[letribs]

Thanks, that was a pretty insightful response.
I appreciate the stretched membrane comparison.

I'm pretty close to adopting. I probably will be
getting a 128 in the next month or two.
Excited.

With all due respect, I think about this thing
every $#%ing day.

[BobDog]

I would just get one if I was you.

Over many years I have purchased loads of kit, some good, some bad and a few that are top notch. The linnstrument is in the top notch bracket.

[Roger_Linn]

Wow— thanks for the complimentary words, guys!

[mijiti]

Originally I'm a wind player, with real instruments and then I moved to using a wind-controller. I ummed and aahed about buying a Linnstrument for a long time, due to it being a very different beast!

Finally,I became another one who bought without trying it out. I have had no regrets at all, it's a wonderful controller, with a carefully designed settings-interface which makes it easy to use live.

I can second the comments about robustness too, and Roger's support is always wonderful!

[digimidi]

I am with everyone else here. The Linnstrument is different from other pad controllers and is the perfect size for playing chords and lead lines. It is very responsive and once you get used to it, nothing else comes close. It does not have a ton of bells and whistles, but it has expressiveness like no other controller out there.

I remember when Roger put out the pre order email. I was driving home from dinner out with my wife and saw the email come through. I immediately pulled over and placed my order as to not miss out on the first run. I own both a 200 (for studio use) and the 128 (that lives in my backpack for travel, I travel quite a bit ). Get it, you won't regret it...

Gil

[jsterne]

I’ve been using Live since 1.5. I was an early adopter of Push and later Push 2. I also moved to a Linnstrument (the Push 2 is still at home and useful for stuff). A few things: it just feels different. I prefer it to the Push for actually playing, but the Push can then be dedicated to launching clips and controlling effects.

You CAN use Linnstrument with Live. If you know Live well, you can do a lot of things with a Linnstrument and Live: the main thing to learn is how to set up MPE plugins, or how to set up native Live devices to behave like MPE. It’s a learning curve but there you go. I have also tried Bitwig, and from a “just Linnstrument” standpoint it’s great (as is Mainstage) but there are still a lot of things you can do in Live that you can’t do in Bitwig, or that are much harder in Bitwig. Three “gotchas” I have experienced so far with Bitwig: MIDI mapping is abysmal (which is to say, stupidly time consuming) unless it’s one of the relatively few supported devices. There is no looper device. There is scripting but nothing like ClyphX (there are workarounds of course) so you’d have to write your own scripts.

In my experience, Live also has MUCH better, faster, and mature technical support.

There is a script for using Push 2 with Bitwig if you want, but it’s not 100% bug free, and the guy doing it does it for free, which is great, but also means you can’t expect the level of support you get from Ableton.

Bottom line: Linnstrument is an amazing way to play synthesizer. However, don’t get charmed by all the specs—Roger has a particular vision for it, which is great, but you have to make it work for your music. Depending on what you are doing, Live and its limitations may be a better choice than more ideal MPE functionality in Bitwig and MainStage. Also, I can’t believe Ableton won’t add MPE at some point, though they are slow to add new functions, which is honestly a preferable business model.

[Echoes in the Attic]

^ Disagree about Bitwig's midi mapping. Control surface support is about the best out there. There are scripts that you let you easily customize your own mapping as well that are way more powerful than what Live gives you. Also the control surface device pages kills Ableton's configuration. Bitwig is a control surface dream. I think you might not have really discovered the power of it. I'm a former Live user and could never go back. Largely because of this. Plus the fact that device macros are relative rather than locking the target parameter, plus so many other things.