Hi,
I've been playing the Linnstrument for a few months now and am still struggling to find the notes visually on it. I think it would be very helpful to have the notes or a subset of them labeled. Something like this Sensel Morph surface/overlay that mimics the Linnstrument layout would be of interest: https://forum.sensel.com/t/12x6-linnstr ... rid/639/19. Has anyone come up with such a thing for the Linnstrument?
Also, has anyone tried the overlay linked here: http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/assets/l ... sharps.pdf ? If so, how did you print/apply it? Any other ideas for creating stickers with labels or landmarks beyond the single bump on the C note? Any lighting schemes that helped make things click for you? Appreciate any tips you more experienced players can pass on.
- Mudbone
Ideas for Labeling/Identifying Notes?
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 7 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
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John the Savage John the Savage https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=396119
- KVRian
- 827 posts since 28 Mar, 2017
My best advice is to not use an overlay. It's a crutch. It may provide some instant gratification, but it will ultimately hold you back in the long run.
If you want to develop proficiency and really learn the playing surface, my suggestion is to light up only the C notes, then memorize the proximity of all the other notes in relation to C: i.e. D is always two squares to the right, G is always directly below, F is always directly above, etc. Do this for every note, one at a time, working within a single octave at first, until you start to see these relationships without having to think about them; then branch out in each direction slowly, in manageable increments, until the entire geography of the playing surface makes sense to you. It's the only way forward. If you use an overlay, when you eventually take it away, you will surely be lost just the same.
The good news is, the LinnStrument's layout is isomorphic, so you only have to learn these relative positions and shapes once, and from there, simply transpose them as you would on, say, a guitar.
Does this take time and perseverance? Yes. But name any serious instrument that you can master in just a few short months; never mind one on which the notes are printed (wink).
Cheers!
If you want to develop proficiency and really learn the playing surface, my suggestion is to light up only the C notes, then memorize the proximity of all the other notes in relation to C: i.e. D is always two squares to the right, G is always directly below, F is always directly above, etc. Do this for every note, one at a time, working within a single octave at first, until you start to see these relationships without having to think about them; then branch out in each direction slowly, in manageable increments, until the entire geography of the playing surface makes sense to you. It's the only way forward. If you use an overlay, when you eventually take it away, you will surely be lost just the same.
The good news is, the LinnStrument's layout is isomorphic, so you only have to learn these relative positions and shapes once, and from there, simply transpose them as you would on, say, a guitar.
Does this take time and perseverance? Yes. But name any serious instrument that you can master in just a few short months; never mind one on which the notes are printed (wink).
Cheers!
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- KVRist
- 145 posts since 9 Sep, 2018
Well, it's curious because the reason I choose a Linnstrument is because I can see the notes.
So I understand your struggle. But the notes on the Linnstrument are coloured (lighted?). You have C in one colour, the rest of the natural notes (D - B) in other and accidentals without light. Isn't it another kind of overlay?
As John points out, the layout is isomorphic, so once you figure out an octave, the rest is easy.
From my time learning the bass, I learned positions and distance between intervals. First octaves (two up, two right), then fifths (one up, two right), then thirds (major/minor), then sevenths (dom/major) and so on.
If you don't know what intervals are I recommend you learn it. If you don't want to, you still can learn the shapes and play.
Use the lights as overlays. Default is C major scale but you can change in anyway you want.
Bass learning methods can be applied to the Linnstrument.
One more thing, if you want overlay, do it yourself. It's another way of learning. Draw the squares, take the first note on the left on the first four rows and write from left to right. Once you've done that, you'll figure out the rest of the rows, you will see the relationships.
Enjoy your journey.
So I understand your struggle. But the notes on the Linnstrument are coloured (lighted?). You have C in one colour, the rest of the natural notes (D - B) in other and accidentals without light. Isn't it another kind of overlay?
As John points out, the layout is isomorphic, so once you figure out an octave, the rest is easy.
From my time learning the bass, I learned positions and distance between intervals. First octaves (two up, two right), then fifths (one up, two right), then thirds (major/minor), then sevenths (dom/major) and so on.
If you don't know what intervals are I recommend you learn it. If you don't want to, you still can learn the shapes and play.
Use the lights as overlays. Default is C major scale but you can change in anyway you want.
Bass learning methods can be applied to the Linnstrument.
One more thing, if you want overlay, do it yourself. It's another way of learning. Draw the squares, take the first note on the left on the first four rows and write from left to right. Once you've done that, you'll figure out the rest of the rows, you will see the relationships.
Enjoy your journey.
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- KVRist
- 180 posts since 16 Jul, 2018
Even with the lights (and having played a little guitar), I struggled a bit at first in this regard as well. One thing I did was take about 5 minutes a day to play simple patterns and/or scales slowly, while saying the notes I was playing out loud. Gradually I increased the complexity and speed. This seemed to help.
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- KVRer
- 24 posts since 7 May, 2019
I suggest putting the played note on "Same" mode to help map out the notes in your brain. From the LinnStrument manual:
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/ls-per-s ... tings.html
One good way to visualize the notes is to use Bitwig (license included with your LinnStrument purchase) and turn on the on-screen keyboard. It's the little tiny piano icon in the bottom-right corner. In the grid layout, it is exactly like the LinnStrument's note layout. It will tell you the note names, and it also has visual feedback for pitch bends and parameter changes. It's a great visual way to see what you are playing.
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/ls-per-s ... tings.html
For displaying the actual note name, there are a number of ways to get a computer to display the note you just played. I think these would be better than labeling the actual instrument. You would be looking up, so it will help with muscle memory, and it leaves open the possibility of changing the tuning or transposition.3) PLAYED
When a note pad is touched (or a Note On message is received over MIDI), the note pad will change to the color selected here. Red is selected by default. Press this button to rotate though the 10 available colors or none.
Hidden setting: Light Animations
Hold to select one of a number of light animations that appear around the played note:
• Cell (Only the pressed note pad is lit. This is the default setting.)
• Same (When pressed, all note pads with the same pitch on other rows will light.)
• Crosses
• Circles
• Squares
• Diamonds
• Stars
• Sparkles (Roger's favorite, best in white)
• Curtains
• Blinds
• Targets
• Up
• Down
• Left
• Right
• Orbits
One good way to visualize the notes is to use Bitwig (license included with your LinnStrument purchase) and turn on the on-screen keyboard. It's the little tiny piano icon in the bottom-right corner. In the grid layout, it is exactly like the LinnStrument's note layout. It will tell you the note names, and it also has visual feedback for pitch bends and parameter changes. It's a great visual way to see what you are playing.
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- KVRer
- 14 posts since 29 Dec, 2020
The only reason I am holding myself off from buying Linnstrument (other than price) is due to the fact that I can not label the notes as per my wish... This is a major drawback compared to Geoshred (which gives me 'almost' Linnstrument like experience)... Yes surely I miss a few features like pressure sensitivity but I can easily overcome that with Y-axis motion in Geoshred...
Also isn't another advantage of Linnstrument is less time to learn and more time to create/play music... If any feature helps to cut down the learning curve and puts less stress in my muscle memory where is the issue with that?
Someone commented - "you only have to learn these relative positions and shapes once, and from there, simply transpose them ...".
Well, if technology can help us to get rid of this effort also and focus more on music and expressivity then should not we welcome that? (Remember this is one of the reasons we all favor Linnstrument over the typical midi keyboard).
Sir Roger Linn... I am not requesting you to add this feature... I just expressed my thought responding to some comments here.... But all I can say (with technical background for over 20 years) is this really a difficult feature to add on which, I feel, will take this great instrument one step forward..
Also isn't another advantage of Linnstrument is less time to learn and more time to create/play music... If any feature helps to cut down the learning curve and puts less stress in my muscle memory where is the issue with that?
Someone commented - "you only have to learn these relative positions and shapes once, and from there, simply transpose them ...".
Well, if technology can help us to get rid of this effort also and focus more on music and expressivity then should not we welcome that? (Remember this is one of the reasons we all favor Linnstrument over the typical midi keyboard).
Sir Roger Linn... I am not requesting you to add this feature... I just expressed my thought responding to some comments here.... But all I can say (with technical background for over 20 years) is this really a difficult feature to add on which, I feel, will take this great instrument one step forward..
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John the Savage John the Savage https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=396119
- KVRian
- 827 posts since 28 Mar, 2017
Consider the effort required to implement the functionality you're asking for (which would come entirely at Roger Linn's expense), versus the minimal effort required to learn basic music theory, and the reward of then having command over this instrument (and other instruments) for the rest of your life.
Looking for shortcuts does not always make for a shorter journey. Indeed, the opposite is usually true.
Cheers!
Looking for shortcuts does not always make for a shorter journey. Indeed, the opposite is usually true.
Cheers!
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- KVRer
- 2 posts since 29 Dec, 2020
Like John the Savage, I suggest lighting up only the "C" notes and working on your relative positions from there. I found the best shortcut was to grab a notebook of graph paper and draw out my scale and chord shapes from memory.
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- KVRAF
- 2490 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
Hi sujoybose77,
I've seen such "training wheels" stickers for learning piano or guitar, and I think the old Suzuki violin method had similar stickers for learning. You might be able to print some up and stick them onto LinnStrument's surface, though the polyurethane non-stick coating might make it difficult for the stickers to stick very long.
Also, some might say there's a good reason that instruments don't have permanent note names printed on them: they force you to learn by absolute pitch instead of by relative pitch. For example, guitarists tend to play without learning theory because key changes are a simple matter of sliding their hand up or down the neck. So it ends of being faster to learn to play by recognizing chord or scale fingerings by shapes instead of by reading note names, and this is especially helpful given LinnStrument's isomorphic note layout.
If you give the light patterns a chance, you may be pleasantly surprised by how well they work and how quickly you find them to be useful. For example:
C is always blue,
D is always 2 pads to the right of C
E is always 1 row up and one column the left of C,
F is always directly above C,
G is always directly below C,
A is always 1 row down and 2 columns left of C,
B is always 1 pad to the left,
and the accidentals are easy to find in relation to the above.
Maybe a good plan would be to wait to buy a LinnStrument until you're more certain. Until that time, GeoShred is a good app for gaining familiarity with the 4ths String Layout.
I've seen such "training wheels" stickers for learning piano or guitar, and I think the old Suzuki violin method had similar stickers for learning. You might be able to print some up and stick them onto LinnStrument's surface, though the polyurethane non-stick coating might make it difficult for the stickers to stick very long.
Also, some might say there's a good reason that instruments don't have permanent note names printed on them: they force you to learn by absolute pitch instead of by relative pitch. For example, guitarists tend to play without learning theory because key changes are a simple matter of sliding their hand up or down the neck. So it ends of being faster to learn to play by recognizing chord or scale fingerings by shapes instead of by reading note names, and this is especially helpful given LinnStrument's isomorphic note layout.
If you give the light patterns a chance, you may be pleasantly surprised by how well they work and how quickly you find them to be useful. For example:
C is always blue,
D is always 2 pads to the right of C
E is always 1 row up and one column the left of C,
F is always directly above C,
G is always directly below C,
A is always 1 row down and 2 columns left of C,
B is always 1 pad to the left,
and the accidentals are easy to find in relation to the above.
Maybe a good plan would be to wait to buy a LinnStrument until you're more certain. Until that time, GeoShred is a good app for gaining familiarity with the 4ths String Layout.
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- KVRist
- 132 posts since 30 Jan, 2010
I have never tried to play without looking at the board but for identifying the notes on it I tried with different colors for each note for a while, it didn't help much, it was too much going on. After that what really helped was to read music, every day for 15 minutes or so. For fast arpeggio sweeps and chord comping just learn the shapes of them based on the root, third, fifth and so on. You can also do that with scales. I guess you can practice the same after a while without looking at the board...
Win 11 | Linnstrument | Bitwig | MOTU Digital Performer | Kurzweil K2000R | Roland JV-1080 | Roland JV-2080 | Roland GR-50 | Doepfer Dark Energy | Xfer Serum | UVI Falcon | u-he | iZotope | Arturia | Synapse Audio
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- KVRer
- 14 posts since 29 Dec, 2020
Thank you for the various pointer Mr Linn... Maybe I am spoiled by playing Geoshred and Velocity Keyboard iOS apps too much with almost zero learning curve there and expecting the same here..Roger_Linn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:52 pm Hi sujoybose77,
I've seen such "training wheels" stickers for learning piano or guitar, and I think the old Suzuki violin method had similar stickers for learning. You might be able to print some up and stick them onto LinnStrument's surface, though the polyurethane non-stick coating might make it difficult for the stickers to stick very long.
Also, some might say there's a good reason that instruments don't have permanent note names printed on them: they force you to learn by absolute pitch instead of by relative pitch. For example, guitarists tend to play without learning theory because key changes are a simple matter of sliding their hand up or down the neck. So it ends of being faster to learn to play by recognizing chord or scale fingerings by shapes instead of by reading note names, and this is especially helpful given LinnStrument's isomorphic note layout.
If you give the light patterns a chance, you may be pleasantly surprised by how well they work and how quickly you find them to be useful. For example:
C is always blue,
D is always 2 pads to the right of C
E is always 1 row up and one column the left of C,
F is always directly above C,
G is always directly below C,
A is always 1 row down and 2 columns left of C,
B is always 1 pad to the left,
and the accidentals are easy to find in relation to the above.
Maybe a good plan would be to wait to buy a LinnStrument until you're more certain. Until that time, GeoShred is a good app for gaining familiarity with the 4ths String Layout.
As a lap steel guitar player for many years, I had picked up various tunings.. Also already started practicing with "fourth" tuning in Geoshred to 'erase' my muscle memory of various regular lap steel guitar tuning ..
Also my intention was never to bypass music theory (I have a fair bit of theory knowledge ). Again thanks for various tips and tricks..
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- KVRist
- 36 posts since 5 Aug, 2020
I've struggled with similar problems and here is my compromise:
That is, I drew a border around every octave (C being in the lower left corner, B in the top right). The has worked remarkably well for me, as it gives a very fast visual indication where you are, while not lending specific pitches any undue prominence — I've been drawn to whatever scale I had lit up before, and that has completely disappeared since I made the switch.
Learning the notes within each box is next to trivial. The C major scale is simply
(and any other major scale, for that matter, but the point is that this arrangement makes learning the absolute note positions a matter of minutes)
Some notes:
That is, I drew a border around every octave (C being in the lower left corner, B in the top right). The has worked remarkably well for me, as it gives a very fast visual indication where you are, while not lending specific pitches any undue prominence — I've been drawn to whatever scale I had lit up before, and that has completely disappeared since I made the switch.
Learning the notes within each box is next to trivial. The C major scale is simply
Code: Select all
⬜⬛⬜⬛⬜⬛
⬛⬜⬛⬜⬛⬛
Some notes:
- I use tritone-tuning (that is, a row offset of +6), that's why the octave is rectangular, and the whole layout is so ridiculously regular. This is mainly why I've settled on that tuning. Plus it gives me another half an octave of tonal range, which I don't mind having.
You could in principle do the same thing on the fourth-tuning (offset +5), but then the major scale / octave boxes are no longer quite as neat:
but you could still do the same thing, in principle.Code: Select all
⬜⬛ ⬛⬜⬛⬜⬛ ⬛⬜⬛⬜⬛ - Yes, I know my Linnstrument looks ugly as hell now. That's because I just traced the lines with a marker pen and my trademark absence of manual dexterity. Oh, and the smudges on the pads are from the official gig bag rubbing off. But that panel is forfeit anyway, because I used permanent marker (like an idiot) and at some point I want to redo the markings properly on a new panel.
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Last edited by wldmr on Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 2490 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
Hmmm...regarding the smudges on the pads, it seems odd that they would be due to the case rubbing off only on the center, commonly-played pads. I haven’t seen this problem from others. Do you think it might be that your fingers are picking up the black marker ink and transferring some of it to the nearby pads?
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- KVRist
- 36 posts since 5 Aug, 2020
Nope, the pads were already blackened before I drew those lines. They definitely came from the gig bag (although the smudging may have gotten worse after the markings, not sure). I should note, though, that I have had the front pouch packed full of stuff, which applied quite a bit of pressure on the playing surface. That's what did it for sure; it only started staining when I started filling the pouch.
Anyway, I don't really mind very much, and I haven't even tried washing it off. I was really just feeling a little self conscious about how badly I treat my Linnstrument and trying to deflect that a bit.
Anyway, I don't really mind very much, and I haven't even tried washing it off. I was really just feeling a little self conscious about how badly I treat my Linnstrument and trying to deflect that a bit.
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- KVRAF
- 2490 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
I'm afraid the black color of the inside material of the travel case isn't something that could transfer to the LinnStrument. I suspect it's not coincidental that the dark areas in your photo are mainly in the centers of the commonly-played pads. I have one other customer who had seen a similar issue that others haven't. Perhaps specific body chemistry results in skin secretions that are somehow staining the polyurethane coating of the silicone playing surface. Could you please email me at the support address? I'd like to learn more and get more photos, especially given that you've had your LinnStrument for only 7 months.
