Whats your favorite/'desert island' MPE sound generator?

[SteveElbows]

Well, indeed the Black Corp. synths have been on my radar for a while now, and they definitely sound fantastic; however, the MPE implementation feels like a bit of an afterthought to me, in the sense that it's really just the same ol' analog subtractive architecture and DIN MIDI interface adapted under-the-hood for minimal MPE control. Don't get me wrong, it's workable, and I applaud them for making the effort, but I'm looking for something more forward-thinking like the EaganMatrix: i.e. designed specifically with MPE controllers in mind.

They have limited wiggle room on those fronts due to being 'tributes' to much older synths. Can use the Deckard's Dream USB port in host mode though, although I havent tried that as people keep recommending to use the DINs, probably some USB glitches with lots of midi data or something.

It did blow my mind that the Deckard's has been out all this time, with various MPE demo videos etc, and yet it doesnt seem to adhere to the MPE spec - it uses poly aftertouch midi messages in MPE mode instead of channel pressure ones! Which is fine with the Linnstrument etc if I fiddle with Linnstrument config, but not good when trying to use a DAW like Bitwig. Hoping for a fix soon but I'm not bothering them about this right now due to Superbooth etc.

The Super-6 sounds amazing as well. Funny, you know, I watched his entire presentation and don't recall any mention of MPE, and I was listening for it too. Hmph. That's good news though. That said, if it were to work for me, they'd have to make a desktop version and slap a USB host port on the back.

At about 15 minutes 50 seconds onwards of the following video you can hear MPE get a mention:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yi3HiXWjVI

[John the Savage]

Actually, you know what? Now that I watch this again, I do recall noting that, if just in passing. Thanks, Steve. It's possible that I've watched too many Superbooth vids this weekend (grin). Anyway, it remains that the form factor is wrong for my needs. If they do a desktop version though, I'd be tempted. In the meantime, however, the time keeps bleeding away, and I'm getting desperate to replace the iPad in my live rig with a robust piece of hardware.

Patience is a virtue, right (sigh)?

That said, my modular setup is showing promise, but patching it is still somewhat less than efficient, despite my efforts to keep it simple; and I'd love two more voices (I've settled for two thus far, but four would be perfect). It all comes down to the aforementioned oscillator that doesn't yet exist. I'm happy with my design otherwise. I mean, I do enjoy the challenge and interaction of live patching, it just needs to be a little quicker.

Cheers!

[pdxindy]

Actually, you know what? Now that I watch this again, I do recall noting that, if just in passing. Thanks, Steve. It's possible that I've watched too many Superbooth vids this weekend (grin). Anyway, it remains that the form factor is wrong for my needs. If they do a desktop version though, I'd be tempted. In the meantime, however, the time keeps bleeding away, and I'm getting desperate to replace the iPad in my live rig with a robust piece of hardware.

Patience is a virtue, right (sigh)?

That said, my modular setup is showing promise, but patching it is still somewhat less than efficient, despite my efforts to keep it simple; and I'd love two more voices (I've settled for two thus far, but four would be perfect). It all comes down to the aforementioned oscillator that doesn't yet exist. I'm happy with my design otherwise. I mean, I do enjoy the challenge and interaction of live patching, it just needs to be a little quicker.

Cheers!

An Analog 4 can be 4 voice MPE and it is small

[John the Savage]

^An excellent suggestion to be sure. I actually have access to a colleague's A4 (it practically lives in my studio space), and I personally think it's an excellent synth, pound for dollar. If I were to go the Elektron route, however, I think the Digitone would be an even better LinnStrument companion: i.e. the FM synth engine is capable of a wider range of timbres, but it otherwise offers all the same attributes as the A4, in so far as filters and modulation are concerned. Not a day goes by that I don't consider it.

As I recall, BobDog got a Digitone a while back, and he was taking it to task with his LinnStrument (there's a thread about that somewhere). Anyway, if you read this BobDog, are you still using the DN, and if so, any new issues to report?

Thanks for the suggestions, gents... Cheers!

[BobDog]

I like the Digitone, it sounds good.

The main issue I have with it is smoothing on the pitchbend, so if you bend up an octave and release and then play another note you hear a short slide of the pitchbend back to 0. I wish synths had a way of turning this smoothing off

Creating a patch for MPE is a bit of a pain as well, you set it up in single channel mode with your modulations (4 destinations for PitchBend, Aftertouch, Velocity and ModWheel) and it sounds good, you then save the patch and then load it into all the tracks and then it doesn't sound quite right with multiple channels so to change anything you have to go through the whole process again as each track contains its own copy of the saved preset so updating one will not update the other three.

It does sound good though

[John the Savage]

Thanks, BobDog!

See, and this is why I ask. That pitch-bend anomaly would definitely bother me. Could you try something for me though? Allegedly, there is a hidden setting in the Per-Split settings, under Pitch/X: i.e. if you press the 5th pad from the top it turns on "Reset On Release", which sends a pitch-bend value of zero when a note is released.

As per the manual, normally this should be left off to prevent pitch changes upon release for sounds with longer releases; however, for sounds with faster releases, if you're hearing the occasional fast pitch sweep at the beginning of a note, it's because a previous note's bend value is remembered by the synth and is quickly being zeroed at the start of the new note. Turning this on is supposed to correct that.

That said, I've never used that feature before, so... For all I know, it'll just cause problems for sounds with longer release times, but I figure it might be worth a try.

Cheers!

[BobDog]

Well That setting certainly does what it says on the tin but as you say we have a problem then with release.

So I thought "How about if I set the DigiTone up to ignore Velocity->Amp Volume and have it totally controlled by Aftertouch->Amp Volume, ContinuuMini style".

This actually works ok, there was a slight click if I released the key too fast which can be removed with a tiny bit of release on the amp env.

You can't get the fast attack you can via the Amp Envelope though, it doesn't react to this as well as the ContinuuMini.

I will update some of my patches to work this way and let you know how it goes...

[Roger_Linn]

The main issue I have with it is smoothing on the pitchbend, so if you bend up an octave and release and then play another note you hear a short slide of the pitchbend back to 0. I wish synths had a way of turning this smoothing off

That problem occurs in some synths, caused by the synth not correctly resetting any residual Pitch Bend from the last use of that voice after the sound finishes. So when you play the new note, LinnStrument initially resets Pitch Bend to zero, resulting in a fast pitch sweep in the voice from the previous Bend value to zero bend.

LinnStrument has a fix for this. In Per-Split Settings > Pitch/X column, turn on the fifth button from the top, a hidden setting called Reset On Release. If on, LinnStrument will send a Pitch Bend value of zero when the note is released instead of when a new note is played. You can read more about it in the Panel Settings page. Of course this won’t work for long release sounds, but does correct the synth’s problem for short-release sounds.

Update: Oops. I see that John already mentioned Reset on Release above. Thanks, John.

[BobDog]

We posted at the same time

[SteveElbows]

Yeah regarding pitch bend, one of the more tedious sections of the official MPE spec does go on about that stuff. I say tedious because I think there is something about their wording which manages to confuse me more than clarify, possibly because the document does not always make it clear when it is talking about MPE from the controllers point of view, and when it is talking about MPE from the synths point of view. Or its just me and brain fog!

In any case whatever the MPE spec says we cant expect old style 'midi mono mode'/voice per channel synths to take account of this stuff, so well done Roger for including the hidden workaround!

[Roger_Linn]

Thanks, Steve. FYI, Logic had this bug in its synths and Apple fixed it. It’s merely a matter of internally zeroing the Pitch Bend value after a voice has finished playing, thereby eliminating the problem the next time the voice is played.

[John the Savage]

Well That setting certainly does what it says on the tin but as you say we have a problem then with release.

So I thought "How about if I set the DigiTone up to ignore Velocity->Amp Volume and have it totally controlled by Aftertouch->Amp Volume, ContinuuMini style".

This actually works ok, there was a slight click if I released the key too fast which can be removed with a tiny bit of release on the amp env.

You can't get the fast attack you can via the Amp Envelope though, it doesn't react to this as well as the ContinuuMini.

I will update some of my patches to work this way and let you know how it goes...

Thanks for sussing that out for me, Andy, I really appreciate it.

In conclusion though, sadly, I don't think I'll be going the Elektron route. I would rather not shoehorn a non-MPE synth into my workflow and setup anyway. As previously stated, I'm just getting frustrated and somewhat impatient waiting for the hardware industry to get to grips with the MPE protocol. I mean, is MPE new? Sure (well, sort of, I guess), but controllerism has been ubiquitous for well over a decade-and-a-half now, yet all we see are DIN MIDI ports (being relegated to dongles no less) and the same 'ol same 'ol...

Sorry, I've never been one to spin my wheels for any length of time, yet I find myself holding my breath on this stuff. At this rate, I'll be practicing voodoo if this drags on much longer (smirk).

Cheers!

[waraukaeru]

You'd think, what with the FH-2 on the market and other similar modules cropping up, that there would be more Eurorack stuff aimed at MPE by now. A four-oscillator, wavetable module with CV inputs for Gate, Pitch, and two or three timbral parameters per voice, as well as the ability to save presets would be a godsend. Anyway...

With an interface like the Polyend Poly (or the new Poly 2) you could basically use any modules in an MPE setup-- provided you route it as such. Seems you might need a lot of modules to support all the voices though!

http://polyend.com/poly-midi-to-cv-converter/

Your imagined wavetable module sounds cool!

[John the Savage]

^Ah, yes, I already own an Expert Sleepers FH-2 though, which is yet more configurable than the Polyend module, but thanks for the link, eh!

I'm currently using a pair of Erica Synths Graphic VCO's, but have several more modules to buy before my MPE setup is complete. The Graphic VCO's are optimal, not just for their wide timbral range, but you can also save "snapshots" of your core sounds, making live patching quicker and more predictable. The only downside is that I have to change snapshots on both oscillators separately, every time I want to change patches (which is often, and I do it all live, on-the-fly, in the middle of songs, for several sets, every night on stage). The one saving grace is that my setup is paraphonic (by design), so I only have one low-pass gate and a pair of envelopes to deal with otherwise. All other modulations are handled within the oscillators themselves, or by playing the LinnStrument of course.

The fictitious wavetable oscillator that I'm dreaming about, would give me at least two more voices, and save having to change snapshots redundantly for each oscillator (or "voice" in this case). But alas, t'is but a figment of my imagination it seems. I recently thought the SWN module from 4ms was going to be the one; but sadly, it doesn't have enough CV inputs to facilitate proper MPE operation. So close... (sigh).

Cheers!

P.S. I just want to reiterate for anyone who cares, that the modular remains an experiment. Most of the synth work I'm doing with the LinnStrument (in a professional context anyway) is still being handled by the iPad... Bleck!

[Reckon104]

This discussion has laid bare one thing for me very clearly...I am happy I fully embraced my laptop/touchscreen/bitwig/software setup

...particularly when I fire up The Grid. It is truly amazing the level of detailed MPE control that can be achieved and how easy and fun it is. I am not a sound design guy, but I get lost for hours and don't want to go to bed, or anywhere else, when I'm working with it.

So that's my story and I'm sticking with it.

(if truth be told, if I had the excuse and/or the money to plunge into some hardware I would, but at this point I'm pretty sure I would find myself alone out on the curb, maybe with my dog)