Please Help a Newbie Understand What Is/Isn't Possible

[totheatom]

Hi, all! Veeerrrrrry interested in purchasing a Linnstrument and joining this beautiful family. Long story short: I'm a lifelong guitarist who has been attempting to enter the world of synthesizers for the last couple of years or so. Unfortunately, during that span, a fair amount of quality gear (and an equal amount of quality software) has come and gone because I just couldn't seem to quite gel with it and/or keep my interest long enough to make the deep dive necessary to really move forward. With that in mind, I decided recently to completely sell everything off and try to "start over" again with a much more focused, thoughtful approach to what I'm looking to get out of making music.

After selling everything off, I have about $2000-2500 to put towards this venture, if needed. I'm also very blessed to have become the recent owner of a Fractal Audio Axe-Fx III preamp/effects processor/audio interface (purchased for my guitar playing) that I intend to very much make part of the synth equation with its outstanding routing capabilities and inputs/outputs.

Having done much thinking, reading, watching, etc. the last several weeks, I have decided I want to try to stay as DAW-less as possible during the creation process and therefore have been zeroing in on hardware options. With that in mind, I understand that a quality sequencer needs to be at the heart of my setup and I was all set to go with either the Synthstrom Deluge or Squarp Pyramid for that purpose and then build around it, piece by piece. Having been aware of the Linnstrument's existence in the past as a unique MIDI controller, I was a bit confused that it kept showing up in sequencer categories on retail websites and it wasn't until just this morning that I decided to actually look into it closer...... Holy hell, could this be exactly what I've been looking for??!!!!

As a guitarist, I already recognized the intuitiveness and expressiveness it offers for playing traditionally keyed instruments. I just never really considered it seriously because I couldn't justify spending that much on a MIDI controller, even a really cool one. However, if it also offers a reasonably comprehensive solution for sequencing other hardware/software instruments (preferably multiple at a time) and... you know... actually creating music (instead of just fiddling around, which I seem to always fall into the trap of) in a very uniquely programmatic, yet also creative and explorative way, then this just might be the best possible solution for the way my brain seems to approach the creation process.

So, I guess my question is: just how comprehensive and powerful is the sequencing capability of this instrument? If I were to surround it with, say, a Blofeld, Moog Sirin and drum machine or sampler (just as an example), could I blissfully create away? In other words, I don't know what I don't know. Will be trying to read and watch as much as possible at warp speed on my day off today, but figured it would be prudent to start a post here as well. I don't expect the sequencing to be quite as capable as the Deluge or Pyramid, of course, but what do you think I would be missing in comparison with those two?

Any and all advice and/or general insight you are willing to provide would be greatly appreciated! Thank you all for your patience and bless you, Roger Linn, for your ingenuity in moving the industry forward.

[Roger_Linn]

Hi totheatom,

Thanks for your interest. LinnStrument’s sequencer is merely a simple two-track step sequencer with up to 32 steps each, so it wouldn’t be adequate for example for creating entire songs. Here’s the how-to video from the manual:
https://youtu.be/bhy_Wx2PWVw

And here’s the manual page:
http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/ls-sequencer.html

That said, it does provide a nice enhancement to LinnStrument’s primary function of expressive musical control.

[John the Savage]

Here's me making huge assumptions about what you're hoping to accomplish musically with the hardware setup you've described above; but as a guitar playing, if I were you, I would use my LinnStrument to control the Blofeld (as a pseudo-MPE synth, making use of its multitimbrality), run it through the Axe FX, then into a MIDI-syncable, multitrack looper pedal (like a 'Rang III or an Infinity) locked to a real-time performance groovebox (like a Korg Electribe). That would keep you well within your budget, give you legions of sound to play with, and total freedom to both sequence and perform parts live on-the-fly (percussion and melody), all while taking advantage of the LinnStrument's attributes as an expressive controller/instrument.

You could even run the output of the looper pedal back into the Electribe's audio inputs for further processing, or just as a way to sum the audio without needing a mixer.

Cheers!

[c0nsilience]

As an addendum to what John proposed, pick up a Presonus Parva (MPE hardware synth) or an Axoloti (or several) in lieu of the Blofeld. While the Blofeld is awesome, it isn't true MPE.

Unfortunately, since you want to remain DAWless, you're also constraining MPE options as there are 5-6 times the number of MPE-compatible soft synths as there are MPE-compatible pieces of hardware. This may change in the next several years, but I still think it's going to be awhile before the hardware manufacturers adopt MPE. Moog One will have it, eventually, but that is very $$$$ and Deckard's Dream, while really cool, is fairly $$$ for a pad synth.

For some perspective, for around $1,300, you can get UVI's Falcon and every expansion pack available, including their Vintage Synths 2. No hardware is going to even come close to that, unless you want to spend upwards of 15-20k and be prepared to maintain some vintage synths, which is going to get more costly as they continue to get older.

[John the Savage]

I can understand why the OP doesn't want to work in-the-box...

Computers suck (wink).

Cheers!

[totheatom]

Thank you all for your input, including Mr. Linn himself!

I'm preferring to avoid software when possible, for two reasons:

1) Like many with similar ambitions have stated, I spend a lot of time on the computer as a developer and I would much prefer a more tactile experience with my hobby. It would also help spare my eyes a bit, which struggle at times with screen fatigue.

2) I should have mentioned in the original post that I have also moved over almost exclusively to a Linux operating system, which seems to makes software plugin compatibility a bit of a mixed (sometimes empty) bag.

That said, I'm not completely opposed to it, where practical. I've been looking at the recommended synths page and trying to do some research. I have already invested in Pianoteq due to it's excellent Linux compatibility. I think Bitwig may be an ideal pairing considering its Linux compatibility as well. I also have been interested in the u-he synths for the same reason - does anyone know if Zebra is MPE compatible on some level (I don't see it on the list with the others)?

A few other follow-ups to your helpful responses:

1) Mr. Linn, since you mentioned that it's a two track sequencer, am I correct in assuming that I could potentially apply one track to one instrument and a second track to another for simultaneous sequencing? Forgive me if that is an obvious question.

2) John, I appreciate your line of thought with the assumptions and you're not far off at all! I'm all about the idea of live looping and one man band type of performing. In fact, I've been trying to wrap my head around just that. I know that the Axe III has looping functionality, but I'm not sure how to apply in this equation with or without a foot controller - will have to research further. I'm also intrigued by the Future Artists MIDI looping box that I just discovered today as well and wondering if that would be a useful companion, rather than investing in a more traditional audio looping pedal? Trying to understand what devices best compliment this instrument to complete my vision (i.e. what the groove box provides that the looping device doesn't; if an external sequencer is still useful; how to connect everything, etc.)...

3) Anyone have any thoughts on the Micromonsta as a poly companion for this versus the Blofeld? I've considered the two before and decided that the Blofeld was the better choice for me in terms of sonic potential and build quality. However, that was before I factored in MPE control for something like this. Wondering if that might tip the scales.

Thanks again for your time and insight.

[Roger_Linn]

1) Mr. Linn, since you mentioned that it's a two track sequencer, am I correct in assuming that I could potentially apply one track to one instrument and a second track to another for simultaneous sequencing? Forgive me if that is an obvious question.

There’s one sequencer track associated with each of the two keyboard splits, which uses the MIDI assignments of the split. So yes, each track can send to a different MIDI channel (or multiple channels for MPE use) in order to achieve a different sound for each split/track. Please see the links I gave for details.

Also, Bitwig’s built-in synths are very capable and are MPE compatible, providing a very nice all-in-one solution for Linux.

[John the Savage]

2) John, I appreciate your line of thought with the assumptions and you're not far off at all! I'm all about the idea of live looping and one man band type of performing. In fact, I've been trying to wrap my head around just that. I know that the Axe III has looping functionality, but I'm not sure how to apply in this equation with or without a foot controller - will have to research further. I'm also intrigued by the Future Artists MIDI looping box that I just discovered today as well and wondering if that would be a useful companion, rather than investing in a more traditional audio looping pedal? Trying to understand what devices best compliment this instrument to complete my vision (i.e. what the groove box provides that the looping device doesn't; if an external sequencer is still useful; how to connect everything, etc.)...

3) Anyone have any thoughts on the Micromonsta as a poly companion for this versus the Blofeld? I've considered the two before and decided that the Blofeld was the better choice for me in terms of sonic potential and build quality. However, that was before I factored in MPE control for something like this. Wondering if that might tip the scales.

Thanks again for your time and insight.

I don't personally own an Axe FX III, but if it's anything like my Line 6 Helix or its other counterparts on the market, it's unlikely that its onboard looper will have MIDI sync or multitrack capabilities; and consequently, you would not be able to jam along with a drum machine or sequencer, and would be rather restricted for building musical arrangements.

The one advantage of a MIDI looper, as apposed to your typical audio looper, is simply that whatever you loop remains pliable after the fact: i.e. you could still open the filter on your sound or what-have-you. However, an audio looper will do a much better job of capturing the nuances of your actual musical performance, and provide unlimited overdubs, meaning that you could change sounds on your synth and record more loops (as many as you want); rather than being stuck on a single patch being controlled by a MIDI looper. And, obviously, a multitrack audio looper would let you build more complex arrangements on-the-fly as well.

I suggested pairing a syncable, multitrack audio looper with a groovebox of some sort, because that would effectively give you the best of both worlds: i.e. an Electribe, for instance, would allow you to sequence both synth and percussion sounds, on multiple tracks, much in the same way a MIDI looper would, only it would be much more flexible; while the audio looper would allow you to capture loops of your LinnStrument performance in real time, in tandem, ad nauseam.

The Micromonsta is a fantastic synth for the money, if you ask me; however, just be aware that it does not have any inherent MIDI channel filtering. This means that it will be listening to ALL channels, ALL the time; so, if you're using it alongside other MIDI gear, this will pose a problem. Using the Blofeld in multitimbral mode, on the other hand (to simulate MPE functionality), though not as convenient per se, actually has the advantage there: i.e. you could specify/restrict which channels it's listening to.

Anyway... Hopefully that answers some questions for you.

Cheers!

[totheatom]

The Micromonsta is a fantastic synth for the money, if you ask me; however, just be aware that it does not have any inherent MIDI channel filtering. This means that it will be listening on ALL channels, ALL the time; so, if you're using it alongside other MIDI gear, this will pose a problem. Using the Blofeld in multitimbral mode, on the other hand (to simulate MPE functionality), though not as convenient per se, actually has the advantage there: i.e. you could specify/restrict which channels it's listening to.

Wonderful insight once again - thank you, thank you! I certainly appreciate all that you wrote and will take it to heart.

Because I'm still such a newbie with MIDI, I unfortunately do not quite follow the bit about channel listening. Practically speaking, may I ask you to clarify what that might mean in a performance with a Micromonsta vs a Blofeld when used alongside other MIDI gear?

[John the Savage]

The MPE protocol (Multidimensional Polyphonic Expression) sends each note that you play over its own separate MIDI channel. This allows for independent pressure, pitch bend, and modulation messages to be applied on a per note basis, which is what makes MPE instruments so expressive.

In the LinnStrument, you can set which (and how many) MIDI channels are being used for MPE, but that is only half of the equation. At the other end, there will be an MPE synth or sound module listening for that MIDI information. Now, ideally you would be able to tell that synth or sound module specifically which channels to listen to, such that it would only listen to those channels; but instead, developers often get lazy and just tell the synth to listen to ALL 16 MIDI channels simultaneously in MPE mode. To be fair, this doesn't pose a problem if that synth is the only MIDI device in the chain; but if it's not, paradoxes arise.

See, in non-MPE situations, the controller would be broadcasting on a single MIDI channel, and the synth or sound module would be set to listen on that same channel. And in the event that you had more than one MIDI device in the chain, you would simply set each device to listen on a different channel. No problem. But if you were to add an MPE synth to that chain, it would inadvertently respond to all the notes and CC messages that are meant for those other devices; *unless, of course, you could specify which channels you want it to receive on exclusively... This is MIDI channel filtering.

With that in mind, the Micromonsta does NOT allow for channels to be filtered thusly; therefore, whenever it's in MPE mode, it is listening to ALL channels, ALL the time.

The Blofeld, on the other hand, is multitimbral, not MPE. What this means is, you can assign a multitude of different sounds to different MIDI channels within the synth itself (one for each MIDI channel if you want). But they don't necessarily have to be different sounds: i.e. you can simulate MPE functionality in a synth like this, simply by assigning the same sound to each MIDI channel; which is like having 'x' number of those synths sitting side by side, all set to the same patch, but each listening on its own separate MIDI channel. The upshot of this setup is that each channel is completely autonomous, and the number of channels is determined [manually] by you. As such, the Blofeld would receive only the information you intended for it, only on the channels you specified; unlike the Micromonsta.

The only downside to this is, if you wanted to make any changes to your pseudo-MPE patch on the Blofeld, you'd have to make those changes redundantly for each sound on each channel. Whereas, on a true MPE synth like the Micromonsta, whatever parameters you change would be applied across all sounds and all channels at once, as though you were using a single patch on a normal synth.

Phew! I hope that makes sense (sheepish grin).

Cheers!

[Tj Shredder]

As you are a developer and are on Linux, I would certainly use Bitwig and create a setup which would allow you to perform without a single look on a screen, even a headless computer accompanied with a Midi controler of your choice would give you more power than any hardware can even come close to...
As Bitwig allows to program your own script for any Midi controller, you can automate and controll everything to your liking...

The guy who runs the new polyexpression site seems to have a little organelle setup https://community.polyexpression.com/t/ ... ganelle/38
You can fill it with a pd patch which could as well be abused for some kind of Midi looping setup...

[totheatom]

Wanted to say thank you again to everyone for your feedback. Also, John, your explanation made perfect sense - really appreciate it!

Haven't pulled the trigger yet, but still very much interested. I ended up purchasing a Squarp Pyramid as my primary sequencer, so that's no longer a concern. I also did go ahead with the purchase of a Micromonsta over the Blofeld and would make sure to use it on its own in MPE mode (or, perhaps I can dedicate one of the Pyramid's MIDI outs exclusively for that synth, since I believe it has two). In addition, I ended up snagging a Nord Drum 3P and a Pioneer/DSI Toraiz AS-1 to help round out my setup. Very excited for everything to arrive.

The expressiveness and format of the Linnstrument is absolutely tantalizing and I've watched just about every video on YouTube of it, at this point. However, having spent most or all of my budget already, it's just a matter of trying to justify going substantially over to also acquire one. In my mind, I have pretty much been trying to justify it as a multi-purpose tool from the beginning. Since the sequencer is no longer a priority, I wonder if it has the capability/flexibility to fulfill a lot of the function of a Launchpad or something similar?

I agree with Tj that utilizing Bitwig in a headless fashion (or as headless as possible) would add a ton of capability to my setup and I was thinking of purchasing a Launchpad Pro to assist with clip launching, etc. Could the Linnstrument provide some of this functionality? If so, that probably would push me over the edge.

[John the Savage]

I gotta be honest, although the LinnStrument is highly configurable, on a function-per-dollar basis it's probably not the best candidate if you're looking to use it merely as a stand-in for something like the Launchpad.

The way I see it, you either want an expressive controller for playing (and I mean really playing) your synths and sample-based instruments, as a real instrumentalist would, or you don't. In that respect, if you don't fancy yourself a "player" per se, there are WAY cheaper options out there for launching clips, entering notes into a sequencer, banging out melodies, etc.

As a side note (pun intended), much to my amusement, the definition of "instrumentalist" in the dictionary includes the following literary example: "Is the skilled pop instrumentalist an endangered species?"

Ha, well, yes, it would certainly seem so... (wink).

Cheers!

[totheatom]

I hear you. Believe me, I do. Would never dream of purchasing a Linnstrument as a stand-in for any of these other devices and I mean no disrespect to Roger Linn and his wonderful work - hopefully it hasn't come across as such (I'm greatly in awe and apprecative of the innovation). This would be something I would use first and foremost as an expressive instrument all it's own in exactly the way you described.

Yet, $1,500 ain't exactly a drop in the bucket for your average home hobbyist and, as one, I'm simply trying to understand what other functions this beautiful machine can perform aside from simply being played as a top of the line MIDI instrument. If it has the capability and flexibility to also provide many of the functions of a Launchpad, for example (seeing as how it shares a similar grid design and relays CC information), then that's several hundred dollars I don't have to spend on such a device as well, etc.

It all adds up. Were this half the price (and I'm not suggesting it should be), it would be no contest. As it is, however, most of us have to prioritize where we put our dollars in pursuit of our casual hobbies. Give this baby the ability to do what I've described as well as perhaps the ability to sequence multiple hardware units a bit more comprehensively and demand for the product will increase significantly.

[c0nsilience]

Give this baby the ability to do what I've described as well as perhaps the ability to sequence multiple hardware units a bit more comprehensively and demand for the product will increase significantly.

I'd have to really disagree with you here. As John has pointed out and I'm sure you've seen via the clips you've watched, the LinnStrument really is the antithesis to the 'push a button, trigger a sequence' crowd. It's designed to be played, which, for example, is why the ability to adjust the tuning in a myriad of different ways is vastly more extensive than its use as a step sequencer. Quite literally, it is designed by a musician for musicians to render an electronic sound source the ability to have analog-like expression (i.e., all the nuances of a stringed instrument). Because of this, I don't ever see it becoming a staple for the producer/DJ.