Moog One

[c0nsilience]

I know MPE isn't fully supported yet, but has anyone been fortunate enough to try this monster out with a LinnStrument?

My idea of Valhalla = a Moog One (Rackmount/Table Top) + a LinnStrument

*presupposing, of course, that the Moog One has full MPE capability by time the folks in Asheville push out a rack mount version.

[John the Savage]

Funny you should ask (grin)... I did get my hands on a Moog One recently, albeit briefly, and my first impression was that it has the cheapest, flimsiest feeling knobs I've ever felt on a synth. Seriously, WTF, Moog? Sufficed to say, I was immediately disillusioned and disappointed. Here on the Canadian West Coast, taxes in, it retails for over ten grand. Anyway...

That said, the synth itself is undeniably a monster, and as you might expect from reading the specs, it leaves little to be desired; so, if you've got the money... Replace the knobs, I guess (smirk). But as if, right?

Personally, I don't think the proverbial juice is worth the squeeze in this case, but that's just me. I mean, it's not really a portable synth per se, so if it's damned to be sitting on a desk in the studio, well... Why not just use soft synths, or otherwise piece something more affordable together of your own design? That's a rhetorical question (wink).

Cheers!

[SteveElbows]

My impression when studying info at launch/info from early purchasers is that it wasnt just MPE that was missing to start with, but also a lot of the other midi stuff wasnt available in the earlier firmware. They started to add the missing things in newer firmware but I forgot how far they got. eg if poly aftertouch isnt supported yet, then I have one less reason to expect to see any linnstrument & moog one videos on youtube. Likewise I'm not sure what their support for the 3 layers/timbres is like when it comes to midi yet. And early adopters have had so much exploring to do that I think trying to exploit any multi-timbrality or poly aftertouch possibility of the 'cobble some multi-note expressivity together in lieu of full MPE support' hasnt risen to the top of peoples lists yet.

I guess the Moog One should be top of my list of hardware synths where the MPE feature request is most likely to come true. I dont take it as a 100% given and I wouldnt like to guess how long it will take them to implement & release it, and at the moment it isnt half done or partially supported in released firmware, its not there at all. I believe they actually want to include MPE, rather than just trying to fob off people who mention MPE like some companies probably do, but this synth costs too much for me to buy one based on this assumption.

In any case for me personally, despite being obsessed with MPE and being desperate for more hardware synth options that fully support it, I've had to let other factors take precedent. When it comes to large flagship synths of this current era, I threw my hat in with the Waldorf Quantum, even though they do not promise MPE support in future (they just acknowledge that it is on their list of user feature requests). I've had to learn to accept Poly aftertouch as a compromise for now, and a few tricks involving splits/layers in the synth and on the Linnstrument. In the slightly more moderate price category, I note there are quite a few videos of the Novation Peak and the Linnstrument, same story really, polyAT is better than nothing.

Not sure I will ever own a Moog One myself but really want it to get MPE capability as soon as possible because it will hopefully make a few other manufacturers (and their marketing departments) pay attention.

[Roger_Linn]

I hope you don't mind my saying this, but I don't understand the attraction to expensive hardware synths. I feel that software synths are more versatile, low-cost or free, fully integrated into your DAW, more portable, and everything can be improved in a software update. If you like analog, I am fond of Logic/MainStage's ES2 modeled analog synth, which has a huge variety of expressively-malleable waveforms, 10 modulation paths in addition to the standard hardwired paths, a variety of good-sounding filters, distortion, a more functional UI than hardware knobs and buttons can provide plus much more, and it's one of 7 MPE synths included in a $30 package (MainStage). By comparison, Moog One has triangle, saw and pulse waveforms, which seems limiting in 2019. I admit that if you bypass the filter and listen closely to the high frequencies of the oscillators, you can hear a difference in analog oscillators, but to me that's not so important compared to the above-stated differences. Analog synthesis is merely one form of synthesis, but there's also additive, FM, AM, phase modulation, granular, samples, plucked string, resonators, many variants of physical modeling and more, and to my ears they all offer more complexity and richness than analog. Sometimes it seems that people either have the "hardware synth" gene switched on or off, and that influences their values. I respect that and I respect the excitement one can feel in receiving a large and expensive new hardware synth, something I've felt in past and has made me feel like playing better. Then again, I used to own a piano, which was an expensive keyboard with only one preset, so I guess my "hardware synth" gene was switched on at some point in past.

[c0nsilience]

It's akin to admiring the engineering of the Bugatti when I'm completely fine with the Miata. There aren't too many times when I pine away for the first synth I ever got (A Super JX-10...that was fun to program!). I'm definitely not an analog purist...Hendrix would've been playing the LinnStrument, not the Stratocaster, had it been around back then...but I really do want to hear what a monster polysynth driven by the most amazing controller on the planet sounds like.

I do agree that there are a multitude of applications that can be done with software that no hardware in the world is going to touch. The ES2 is a good example of this. UVI's Falcon is another good example. Aalto and Kaivo, as well.

All that being said, I still can't help but want to try a Moog One with the LinnStrument! haha

[Roger_Linn]

Agreed, there are many examples of how I make choices based of factors other than practicality. I think we're all looking for something that turns up the "feel good" knob inside, and and the inputs to that knob are different for each of us. I can see how the Moog One would do that.

[John the Savage]

Sometimes it seems that people either have the "hardware synth" gene switched on or off, and that influences their values. I respect that and I respect the excitement one can feel in receiving a large and expensive new hardware synth, something I've felt in past and has made me feel like playing better. Then again, I used to own a piano, which was an expensive keyboard with only one preset, so I guess my "hardware synth" gene was switched on at some point in past.

^There's your answer!

For me, it's partly that a laptop onstage is an aesthetic unbecoming of rock and roll, and I prefer the tactile feedback of knobs and faders under my fingers when designing sounds and making changes on-the-fly during a performance. That said, I don't care whether the sound source is analog or digital, as long as it sounds great. There's also something to be said for committing to a certain sound and workflow, not unlike what you said above about the piano, Roger, or your guitar for that matter. Synthesis in general can be a bit of a rabbit hole, so to speak. To that end, having endless possibilities, while compelling, is not necessarily conducive of being productive or proficient at your instrument. Unfortunately, my job demands that I be able to play a vast array of sounds and styles, so I need a flexible sound generator; but left to my own devices, I would honestly prefer to make a decision as to what kind of instrument I would like my LinnStrument to be, build a modular synth of my own design around that vision, and stick with it.

Another important aspect of musical performance that is often overlooked (and this coming from a career entertainer) is that the "identity" of the instruments onstage, as seen from the audience's perspective, is not a trivial matter. If people can't correlate what they're seeing with the sound they're hearing, or otherwise make sense of it, they won't relate, and as a result, they won't care as much. As such, it can be advantageous to have distinct, hands-on instruments to interact with, wherein every key-press or knob-turn has a direct and predictable result that people can start anticipating and appreciating. It's why we could watch David "Fingers" Haynes finger-drum all day, whereas most people couldn't care less about what ambiguous noise is coming out of Jeremy Ellis' pads - all due respect to Mr. Ellis of course. There's a real danger, in my experience, of alienating your audience by having the "everything box" onstage.

And an instrument is something special, even mystical, to the average layman; whereas everyone has a laptop, tablet, or phone, and those devices often symbolize nothing but work and "social" frustrations. As tech geeks, I think we can be too pragmatic about these things at times: function over fashion, as they say (wink).

Cheers!

[Roger_Linn]

Good points all, John. And given that you are talented enough to make your living from music, it’s worth noting that it is very practical to have rugged hardware gear on stage that you can depend on. It’s also very practical to turn a knob instead of a picture of a knob.

[John the Savage]

Well, I don't know about the "talented" part, but I make a fine drinking buddy and travel companion... Ya gotta be a good hang in this biz (wink).

Cheers!

[c0nsilience]

Interesting discussion, gents!

As of late, my wife has contented herself with my two new loves: the LinnStrument and this forum.

[SteveElbows]

By comparison, Moog One has triangle, saw and pulse waveforms, which seems limiting in 2019.

Analog synthesis is merely one form of synthesis, but there's also additive, FM, AM, phase modulation, granular, samples, plucked string, resonators, many variants of physical modeling and more, and to my ears they all offer more complexity and richness than analog.

Thats why I went for a Waldorf Quantum rather than a Moog One!

[c0nsilience]

@SteveElbows Waldorf undoubtedly makes some cool stuff (for someone wanting to get into semi-modular, the KB37 is hard to beat). That being said, I've never pulled the trigger on a Blofeld because of the glitches/build quality issues that others have routinely complained about, despite really digging the Blofeld concept. Moog's are tanks.

Are you concerned about any possible QA issues on the Quantum? Have you had any issues with yours?

Also, have you looked into the Kyra that just debuted at NAMM?

[BobDog]

Weird that the Moog one knobs are bad, that's something you can usually rely on Moog to get right.

I must admit I wouldn't mind one, not enough to pay that stupid money though. I would expect the knobs to be pretty good as well at that price!

[SteveElbows]

Are you concerned about any possible QA issues on the Quantum? Have you had any issues with yours?

Also, have you looked into the Kyra that just debuted at NAMM?

Quality issues generally dont worry me that much because I am a nerd who sort of thrives on researching stuff before purchase, accepting some moderate risk, working round any little glitches. Some people quite rightly complain that they dont want to be beta testers for a released product, but I am the sort of guy who really enjoys beta testing, figuring out the tech detail of issues and comparing notes with the manufacturers and other users. And in this day and age although there is quite a bit of variation between manufacturers, a lot of things do get fixed and improved in firmware updates and that makes me happy to see the evolution.

When it comes to a rather expensive synth like the Quantum, the stakes are obviously higher and I do not blame anyone for being cautious. In this case I just decided to go for it and enjoy the ride, especially as for once in my life I actually ended up with the luxury of getting a synth like that.

The Quantum so far is not entirely free of issues. A bunch of things have been fixed in firmware updates so far, and a few new features, with some much larger features to come soon in firmware 2.0 which adds a new sort of oscillator. Some things remain to be fixed. Similar story with the Moog One from what I can tell, except it sounds like the launch was rushed and a whole bunch of things were missing from the first firmware version, including some really basic midi stuff, but as I said earlier I am a bit out of date on that now.

I am aware of the Kyra, though it hasnt impressed me that much from demos so far I will keep an eye on it. I am mostly done buying hardware synths for now unless something with really good MPE support comes along that also pleases my ears. The Moog One might fall into that category one day, but it doesnt tick either box for me yet.

[goldenanalog]

...I've never pulled the trigger on a Blofeld because of the glitches/build quality issues that others have routinely complained about, despite really digging the Blofeld concept.

They're fine. Waldorf fixed their firmware a while back (although admittedly: it took them longer then it probably should've)