Haken Continuumini
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- KVRAF
- 2490 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
I saw that in Ed's video and thought it added a lovely acoustic resonance to the Mini's sound, and was also a very beautiful design. I think LinnStrument players would want to know more about it. Can you create a new topic on this forum? You can start it with "Roger asked me to post this."
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Christophe Duquesne Christophe Duquesne https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=430239 - KVRer
- 10 posts since 22 Nov, 2018
Sure 
I do it right now ! Thank You
I do it right now ! Thank You-
Christophe Duquesne Christophe Duquesne https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=430239
- KVRer
- 10 posts since 22 Nov, 2018
The post is here
Thanks again
Thanks again
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- KVRist
- 238 posts since 2 Jul, 2017
Very interested in this,for the eaganmatrix rather than the control surface.
I wonder if haken / Eagan have any plans (or would consider) a standalone eaganmatrix box - they kind of have done already for the polyphonic expander iirc. Seems a more viable option given the number of MPE control systems out there.
Does anyone know the difference in strike approaches between the haken implementation and the Linstruments? Im hoping given its a synthasizer and all that the eagenmatrix could be programmed in a way to counter whatever difference that is.
I wonder if haken / Eagan have any plans (or would consider) a standalone eaganmatrix box - they kind of have done already for the polyphonic expander iirc. Seems a more viable option given the number of MPE control systems out there.
Does anyone know the difference in strike approaches between the haken implementation and the Linstruments? Im hoping given its a synthasizer and all that the eagenmatrix could be programmed in a way to counter whatever difference that is.
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- KVRist
- 358 posts since 1 Jul, 2004
Christophe can explain this certainly better than me.
From what I understood EaganMatrix is mainly (only?) looking at pressure, (by default?) not at velocity. (Haven't found good infos on how velocity or MIDI/MPE handling in general is treated in the EaganMatrix manual).
They seem to support an "MPE+" extension where (among other things) as far as I understood velocity is just set to constant 127 and the attack is e.g. supposed to be directly modelled with pressure events.
Haven't fully understood the expectations of the EaganMatrix and the technical possibilities of the Linnstrument yet - but fortunately the Linnstrument is fully hackable, so some experiments will be in order
From what I understood EaganMatrix is mainly (only?) looking at pressure, (by default?) not at velocity. (Haven't found good infos on how velocity or MIDI/MPE handling in general is treated in the EaganMatrix manual).
They seem to support an "MPE+" extension where (among other things) as far as I understood velocity is just set to constant 127 and the attack is e.g. supposed to be directly modelled with pressure events.
Haven't fully understood the expectations of the EaganMatrix and the technical possibilities of the Linnstrument yet - but fortunately the Linnstrument is fully hackable, so some experiments will be in order
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- KVRist
- 358 posts since 1 Jul, 2004
Found some additional information tidbits in the Hakenaudio user group:
question: "can we play all the presets of the continuum with a midi keyboard on channel one and getting sound ?
Lippold Haken: "It will work better on keyboards that have polyphonic aftertouch - you may have to do some custom programming to make it useful. When we get the new release out (the firmware in the Mini you are seeing is much newer than the current release), check out the sound that Ed demonstrated with the xkeys - he has some special blends in formulas for keyboard vs surface"
So my reading of this is that the new version of EaganMatrix that comes with the ContinuuMini will have some new tricks in it's sleeve that make it easier to work with velocity-based MPE controllers. But that some of the Continuum/ContinuuMini presets might need to be adapted.
question: "can we play all the presets of the continuum with a midi keyboard on channel one and getting sound ?
Lippold Haken: "It will work better on keyboards that have polyphonic aftertouch - you may have to do some custom programming to make it useful. When we get the new release out (the firmware in the Mini you are seeing is much newer than the current release), check out the sound that Ed demonstrated with the xkeys - he has some special blends in formulas for keyboard vs surface"
So my reading of this is that the new version of EaganMatrix that comes with the ContinuuMini will have some new tricks in it's sleeve that make it easier to work with velocity-based MPE controllers. But that some of the Continuum/ContinuuMini presets might need to be adapted.
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Christophe Duquesne Christophe Duquesne https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=430239
- KVRer
- 10 posts since 22 Nov, 2018
Yes that's right the EaganMatrix now comes with features that make it easier to work with velocity-based MPE or non MPE controllers.... but most presets will need to be adapted.
The EaganMatrix uses X/Y/Z (and a nice set of modulators...) and most often, you don't need a velocity as it exist on traditional keyboard: instead, you use the Z attack trajectory. You can do this since the Z tracking is very fast and very accurate. On a traditional synth, the velocity is an input paramater for an enveloppe... on the Continuum your finger is the enveloppe, so you replace something which is usually automated by something that you really play.
This said, if you want an attack velocity and an enveloppe that's also available in the EaganMatrix... but much less fun to play !
The EaganMatrix uses X/Y/Z (and a nice set of modulators...) and most often, you don't need a velocity as it exist on traditional keyboard: instead, you use the Z attack trajectory. You can do this since the Z tracking is very fast and very accurate. On a traditional synth, the velocity is an input paramater for an enveloppe... on the Continuum your finger is the enveloppe, so you replace something which is usually automated by something that you really play.
This said, if you want an attack velocity and an enveloppe that's also available in the EaganMatrix... but much less fun to play !
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- KVRist
- 112 posts since 15 Feb, 2012
Ooh, progress reports please! Mine isn't coming until April.
I ordered one (through the Kickstarter) basically as an MPE sound module. What really sold me on its potential with LinnStrument was the video on using external controllers with the *Mini: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_DvPykpJrc
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- KVRist
- 267 posts since 17 Oct, 2005
To play the devil's advocate a bit:
What am I missing here?
The cost is in the same ballpark as adding a LinnStrument 128 to an existing setup...
Is it the EaganMatrix?
Sorry, I just don't see where a 1-2 finger max playable surface on something that resembles a (forgive my ignorance) glorified ribbon controller is worth getting jazzed up about.
What am I missing?
What am I missing here?
The cost is in the same ballpark as adding a LinnStrument 128 to an existing setup...
Is it the EaganMatrix?
Sorry, I just don't see where a 1-2 finger max playable surface on something that resembles a (forgive my ignorance) glorified ribbon controller is worth getting jazzed up about.
What am I missing?
Duality without regard to physicality
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1552 posts since 2 Apr, 2015
Well I am having difficulty getting it being played by the Linnstrument in MPE mode. Single channel poly aftertouch works fine, pitchbend range I can't get working yetRimwolf wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:01 pmOoh, progress reports please! Mine isn't coming until April.
I ordered one (through the Kickstarter) basically as an MPE sound module. What really sold me on its potential with LinnStrument was the video on using external controllers with the *Mini: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_DvPykpJrc
In MPE mode I can only get it playing from two channels and only when the first is held, these channels change as well! So if I manage to get a note playing on channel 2, then channel 6 will also work. It's very weird!
Bitwig, against the constitution.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1552 posts since 2 Apr, 2015
OK, I have experimented some more.
If I set the CM to MPE+ and record the midi output and play it back everything works as expected.
If I set the CM to MPE and record the midi output and play it back I get silence.
So the CM as it stands in its default state doesn't seem to be able to be played from MPE. I'm hoping this is just some setting somewhere and have emailed them about it...
If I set the CM to MPE+ and record the midi output and play it back everything works as expected.
If I set the CM to MPE and record the midi output and play it back I get silence.
So the CM as it stands in its default state doesn't seem to be able to be played from MPE. I'm hoping this is just some setting somewhere and have emailed them about it...
Bitwig, against the constitution.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1552 posts since 2 Apr, 2015
Ok, working with Linnstrument
If I set up like the attached image everything works fine. There are MPE values for X/Y but if you ignore those and just use the CC numbers it works.
If I set up like the attached image everything works fine. There are MPE values for X/Y but if you ignore those and just use the CC numbers it works.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Bitwig, against the constitution.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1552 posts since 2 Apr, 2015
Another update:
After some help from Richard Kram the MPE setup side does work with the MPE settings on the ContinuuMini, what doesn't work is the visual update of the X/Y/Z in the editor.
Also if a ContinuuMini preset is set for say 2 voices and you have the linnstrument outputting 16 channels then you will get missed voices. The Linnstrument has to be set to output the same number of channels of the polyphony of the preset for it to work.
The synth engine of the ContinuuMini is just about perfect for the Linnstrument. I'm still getting my head around it but everything is designed on the X/Y/Z outputs and it offers synthesis options that as far as I know are not available on any hardware synths.
I was a little worried that the removal of velocity would be an issue after the talk of the latency in the initial Z response from the Linnstrument but for me this seems no issue at all, there is an ever so slight difference but only if you really concentrate to hear it, the Z axis also needs no extra smoothing/interpolation like is needed on the poly aftertouch of the keyboard in the video posted above.
Very highly recommended as a sound module for the Linnstrument.
After some help from Richard Kram the MPE setup side does work with the MPE settings on the ContinuuMini, what doesn't work is the visual update of the X/Y/Z in the editor.
Also if a ContinuuMini preset is set for say 2 voices and you have the linnstrument outputting 16 channels then you will get missed voices. The Linnstrument has to be set to output the same number of channels of the polyphony of the preset for it to work.
The synth engine of the ContinuuMini is just about perfect for the Linnstrument. I'm still getting my head around it but everything is designed on the X/Y/Z outputs and it offers synthesis options that as far as I know are not available on any hardware synths.
I was a little worried that the removal of velocity would be an issue after the talk of the latency in the initial Z response from the Linnstrument but for me this seems no issue at all, there is an ever so slight difference but only if you really concentrate to hear it, the Z axis also needs no extra smoothing/interpolation like is needed on the poly aftertouch of the keyboard in the video posted above.
Very highly recommended as a sound module for the Linnstrument.
Bitwig, against the constitution.
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- KVRAF
- 8828 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
I bet the EaganMatrix processor would fit into the LinnStrument, drill some holes on the left side for the additional plugs... - just dreamin'...
