Haken Continuumini

[NothanUmber]

If I plug a power supply to the Linnstrument, does it output current on the USB port also then, so I could drive a bus-powered synth (like the EaganMatrix) with it? Would be handy, then no USB hub would be needed (at least for the "big" Linnstrument).

No, it does not. Also, I think may be confused about what a USB hub is. It is simply a device that connects to a single USB jack on your computer and provides 2 or more USB jacks. However, some cheaper USB hubs don’t deliver enough power or data speed.

Ok, thanks, good to know.

This is what they wrote in the ContinuuMini Kickstarter FAQ:
"How can you connect an xKey Midi keyboard to the ContinuuMini while still powering both?
Two possibilities: (1) ContinuuMini and xKey powered and connected through a computer running the Continuum Editor. (2) Use a USB host that can pass the Midi data from the xKey into the Continuum."

Edit: it's "usb host", not "usb hub", previous text didn't make sense. The ContinuuMini can apparently not act as USB host, only as slave, so a usb hub (powered or not) doesn't help (neither can we directly connect a Linnstrument to a ContinuuMini).

Some options that might work:
* I hope I can use my iConnectMidi4+. This can act as a USB host by itself and reroute MIDI between different attached clients which it can also power via bus. Also additionally has DIN MIDI I/O, so the (big) Linnstrument could also be connected that way.
* Found a "Kenton MIDI USB Host MkII" that looks as if it might work: Also can act as USB host, also has DIN MIDI I/O. Less expensive than iConnectMidi4+. Apparently doesn't support USB hubs, so only one USB slave and one other device connected via DIN MIDI should work - e.g. the big Linnstrument (or an additional DIN MIDI<->USB converter)
* Perhaps a Raspberry Pi with amidi (or a similar program), routing MIDI between two USB ports might work? https://linux.die.net/man/1/amidi . Ok, technically this is essentially a "fully blown computer" but could get away as mimicry-slightly-oversized-adapter-box

[Roger_Linn]

The USB Host is the flat rectangular connector on the computer. The USB Slave (peripheral) is the square USB connector on Continuum, LinnStrument or any other USB device that connects to a computer. All USB cables have a Host connector on one end and a Slave connector on the other end. For example, you would connect a standard USB cable’s Host end (rectangular) to the computer and its Slave (square connector) end to the LinnStrument or Continuum.

[John the Savage]

That’s the reason I’m finding the trend of embedded Linux interesting. If it continues and some good synths start to appear, then you could load the synth(s) of your choice into your instrument, rather than being stuck with either the included synth that you may not like or using an external iPad/laptop.

If you were to go this way, Roger, perhaps it's something that could be done as a small peripheral that could be attached to the LinnStrument in an sturdy but otherwise unobtrusive way: i.e. perhaps a module that replaces one of the wooden side panels for instance, or something that makes use of the screw points for the guitar strap attachments, etc. Another idea might be for the user to simply purchase a new lower chassis that contains the chip and additional audio outputs.

This way, the addition of a sound engine would constitute an optional upgrade of sorts, rather than having to be a completely different, more expensive instrument. As someone who already has a LinnStrument, I know I'd vastly prefer the option to upgrade it over replacing it altogether.

Anyway, just thinking out loud...

Cheers!

[BobDog]

The Organelle is quite a nice little box which has a single core A9 processor, it basically runs PD and Supercollider: https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle

It's easily updatable by changing the SOM as well, I have changed mine to a 4 core version.

The idea of PD/Supercollider is better I think than something that just runs LV2 plugins as there just are not any good LV2 plugins, people just don't write them.

One of the main problems with the generic Arm boards running Linux is that their realtime ability is a bit limited, Bela http://bela.io is a system that gets around this issue by using a proper RT kernel from Xenomai and also a processor that has a dedicated real time unit, basically a smaller processor on the die that doesn't run unix, has a high speed bus to the main processor and can give you hard real time ability. This combination can let it run with buffer sizes of just 2 samples: http://www.nime.org/proceedings/2016/ni ... er0005.pdf

There are some really neat chips coming out now for embedded linux, I have been recently looking at the Xilinx Zynq UltraScale+ MPSoC ZU3EG, Quad core A53 (NEON and FPU), Dual Core R5 real time processor, Mali 400 (openCL) and a FPGA with high speed interconnect to both the A53 and R5. It is a pretty powerful chip and the addition of the FPGA allows you to do some neat things for audio, it can even be used to create a load of 100mhz 1 bit DACs for the audio outputs.

The FPGA side of things is also being made easier of the masses with things like PYNQ https://pynq.readthedocs.io/en/v2.3/ which allows what they call Overlays (what we would call plugins and what digital engineers would call partial configuration). This allows you to easily reconfigure the FPGA at run time to do different tasks, so you could say load an overlay that gave you 2048 adjustable sine waves, a filter bank or an FFT overlay etc.

Interesting times are on our doorsteps...

[NothanUmber]

The USB Host is the flat rectangular connector on the computer. The USB Slave (peripheral) is the square USB connector on Continuum, LinnStrument or any other USB device that connects to a computer. All USB cables have a Host connector on one end and a Slave connector on the other end. For example, you would connect a standard USB cable’s Host end (rectangular) to the computer and its Slave (square connector) end to the LinnStrument or Continuum.

That would be too easy and take the fun out of it
ContinuuMini has a mini-B entry, getting a cable that would physically connect the Linnstrument to the ContinuuMini (or the ContinuuMini to the host port of a usb hub) is (unfortunately) no problem: https://cdn.sparkfun.com//assets/parts/ ... 558-02.jpg, https://cdn.sparkfun.com//assets/parts/ ... 558-01.jpg They apparently sell you anything to anything cables.
You have to have further infos what works and what doesn't. But thanks for highlighting the initial idea behind the different plug variants, didn't really think about the intention (A=host, B=slave) yet - seems to be a good indicator most of the time.

[Christophe Duquesne]

Hello
I'm Christophe Duquesne from La Voix du Luthier and Haken Audio.
I did some tests with the ContinuuMini I have used recently at SoundMit (Turin) and there are basically 2 ways to connect a Mini to other MIDI devices, and in both case you need an intermediate guy:

1- connect the Mini and the device to you Mac or PC via USB and do the routing through the editor
2- connect the Mini and the device to a MIDI hub (I use an IConnect Audio on my side, but the iConnect Midi will be Ok too, and I didn't try other products, but I'm pretty sure you can find other such Midi Hubs like the Kenton mentioned by NothanUmber).

Note that on the iConnect, you can connect a USB Hub to the USB MIDI Host plug, meaning that you can have quite a lot of devices connected together (for example a ContinuuMini, a Linnstrument and and XKey).

[NothanUmber]

Thanks Christophe for clarification! Sorry, was initially misinterpreting the FAQ regarding connectivity options (even though what is stated there makes completely sense).

[Roger_Linn]

I'm Christophe Duquesne from La Voix du Luthier and Haken Audio.

Hi Chris,

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on the success of the ContinuuMini KickStarter campaign, with $130k raised so far!

[Roger_Linn]

You have to have further infos what works and what doesn't.

Sorry— I was trying to keep my explanation simple because it seemed you didn’t have a strong understanding of the topic. I should have said that nearly all USB cables have an A type connector (host) on one end and and B type connector (slave) on the other, but these can be full size, mini or micro connectors. And yes, you can find A to A or B to B cables, but they won’t help in most cases because they can’t change a computer into a peripheral or vice versa. Also, there are special case adaptors for the case where a device must sometimes be a peripheral and sometimes a host, like for example Apple’s USB Camera Connector for iPad. Finally, all this is changed with USB-C, which uses the same connector for both host and slave uses.

Regarding your comment above, you’ll find very complete information about all the ways to connect LinnStrument on the LinnStrument Hooking It Up page.

[NothanUmber]

You have to have further infos what works and what doesn't.

Regarding your comment above, you’ll find very complete information about all the ways to connect LinnStrument on the LinnStrument Hooking It Up page.

Thanks, good subsumption! Was somehow mistaken that the ContinuuMini would be similar to e.g. the Organelle or Axoloti where you can just plug in a LinnStrument. But those both have an A slot and are USB hosts - and this slot is not the one they are charged with.
A lot of indications that this would probably not work, overwritten by wishful thinking

[NothanUmber]

Regarding the Raspberry Pi variant - some people have apparently also thought about this
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/rpi-midi-bridge-idea/
or even tried it out
https://stimresp.wordpress.com/2016/02/ ... midi-host/

In this case we wouldn't even need a DIN MIDI-to-USB interface as both the Linnstrument and the ContinuuMini natively support USB (as slaves).

Looks like a promising, quite cheap, configure-once-wire-and-forget solution! (iConnect&Co are great but pricey when compared to what the Mini costs)
@Christophe: could perhaps be worth a try - and if sucessful an update on the Kickstarter. Perhaps Hakenaudio could even provide an SD-card image that people could use to turn a factory Pi into a redirecting midi host?. Think quite a number of Linnstrument and Seaboard etc. owners could be interested.

[Roger_Linn]

The idea of PD/Supercollider is better I think than something that just runs LV2 plugins as there just are not any good LV2 plugins, people just don't write them.

Good comments all, BobDog. But a realtime-optimized Linux can run applications like PD or Supercollider directly as well as LV2 plugins. And though the chips you mentioned are all good ones, they and all the necessary glue chips get costly for small production quantities like LinnStrument, which brings the customer price up quickly. One possible solution I’ve been watching is the Raspberry PI Compute Module 3, which gives you a quad-core 1.2 gHz ARM, 1 gig of RAM and 4 gigs of flash on a tiny daughterboard that fits into a DIMM socket, all for $25.

[BobDog]

Absolutely, the organelle is not “optimised” for audio and does pretty well, I was really just thinking/talking about something like the Eigen software in the continuumini where the latency would be very low (Bela) or something for the future (UltraScale)

The pi 3 bang for buck can’t be beaten, as a sound engine running PD, supercollider or LV2 it would be fantastic.

Im a real fan of the PI, I have quite a few here, one for a NAS I built, one for emulating video games, one for a bird watching video camera, and two with touchscreens for open sound control software I am working on. Pretty flexible little things.

[Roger_Linn]

Thanks for all the suggestions, Bob. These are all interesting developments to keep an eye on.

[Christophe Duquesne]

I'm Christophe Duquesne from La Voix du Luthier and Haken Audio.

Hi Chris,
Welcome to the forum and congratulations on the success of the ContinuuMini KickStarter ...

Thanks a lot Roger
Yes we are very happy and grateful to have such a success for the KickStarter ! and that's a kind of combo for us, since we also have La Voix du Luthier (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/la ... dboard-res) as a successfull KickStarter !