iPad or Mac for the Linnstrument?

[tiantong]

Hi

I'm planning to purchase a Linnstrument. I stopped playing bass for almost 20 years ago. The linnstrument got my attention for its expressiveness and for the grid. I've been playing with some iPad apps and Logic Pro on my MacBook Pro, both in very old devices (+ 4 years). I only want to play for myself.

I could go with my old MacBook Pro from late 12 but it seems its 8GB RAM can't cope with Logic's demands. I could buy a new iPad (new models coming up in less than a week) having already a few nice sounding synths but I'm concerned with stability and the general short life period of both apps and iPad.

I could go hardware but that's too new for me; it would be only on a 2nd phase.

So my question for you would be, for a simple set up and intimate play, what would you recommend:

1. A last generation iPad?
2. A more stable Mac (iMac or MacBook)? (mobility is not an issue)

And lastly, why can't a MacBook Pro from 2012 with a Intel Core i5, 2,5GHz processor and 8GB Ram cope with more than 2 tracks in Logic Pro or Sugar Byte's Factory at 95% CPU? It's clean installed every two years, storage on the cloud, used mainly for writing (markdown), mail and music listening... If that's not enough, what is?

Thank you in advance for your help. I hope you can help me finding an instrument for the Linnstrument

[pdxindy]

It is a matter of personal preference... and what you want to do. Do you want to record multi-track songs, just play one instrument in realtime etc.

I have a 2016 top of the line MBP 15" and last years top of the line iPad Pro. I would not get the iPad Pro for audio... that is not a recommendation of what you should do, but my conclusion for myself.

The iPad Pro does not have good connectivity... it is minimal in its choice of synths and FX and DAW's... with a complex environment like a DAW and many top end synths, I like to have the mouse and keyboard. When there are lots of closely packed parameters, I find the touch screen clumsy. I find the mouse better for precise editing.

I use Bitwig and Logic as DAW's... and a number of VST synths... none of which are available on iOS. iOS feels like a very small pond when I am used to a broad sea...

I do love the iPad Pro for drawing with the Apple Pencil... and there are starting to be some quality apps such as Affinity Photo and Designer on the iPad. So I'm glad I have it, but no way would I want the iPad Pro to be my only tool... I would take the MBP everytime if I had to choose between them.

[tiantong]

Thank you, @pdxindy.
I won't be recording multitrack songs, but a minimal back-up. I like the sounds in Logic, specially Alchemy and Sculpture but sometimes I think it is overkill as 95% of the time I don't record anything, just play and tweak sounds. On the other hand, I'm not so fond of depending on the mouse and single touch. Although the ipad surface is not the best UX I still like the multitouch capabilities and the fact that there are a lot of enthusiastic developers making good use of it.

Should it be an iPad, connectivity wouldn't be an issue, as I only need an USB for the Linnstrument and a output for the speaker or headphones. But memory is a limitation and pretty soon there is overload, glitches...

I don't know, maybe the iPad is best suited for graphics, like what you do... but that's why I'm in doubt and posting here

[BobDog]

And lastly, why can't a MacBook Pro from 2012 with a Intel Core i5, 2,5GHz processor and 8GB Ram cope with more than 2 tracks in Logic Pro or Sugar Byte's Factory at 95% CPU? It's clean installed every two years, storage on the cloud, used mainly for writing (markdown), mail and music listening... If that's not enough, what is?

Your 2012 MacBook pro i5 scores the following on geekbench:

single core: 2959
multi core : 5651


An Ipad pro 10.5 scores:

single core: 3910
multi core : 9315


A modern top of the line mac book pro:

single core: 5336
multi core : 22461


So as you can see your mac might be a little slow when running modern DAWS and soft synths even before we look at the memory limitations

So If you want to use it then run software that was around in 2012, including the version of logic you are using.


If you want to upgrade then I would go for a new computer rather than an iPad. I have loads of iPads here as I develop software for them, I also have all the synth apps, do I ever use them? No.

If I was playing live with the Linnstrument than a Decent iPad and some of the apps would be absolutely perfect, for messing around at home a computer is the best bet.

p.s. you could just drop Logic and use MainStage, might be the best bet to start with as it is much less demanding on the computer.

[John the Savage]

And lastly, why can't a MacBook Pro from 2012 with a Intel Core i5, 2,5GHz processor and 8GB Ram cope with more than 2 tracks in Logic Pro or Sugar Byte's Factory at 95% CPU? It's clean installed every two years, storage on the cloud, used mainly for writing (markdown), mail and music listening... If that's not enough, what is?

Honestly, sometimes I don't understand what you guys are doing with your devices that demands so much CPU (smirk). Admittedly, I'm a musician first, and a technician second, but I do work as a professional in every sense of the word, both onstage and in the studio, and I rarely hit the wall with any of the devices I use. Hell, I just mixed a track for a client using an Asus ZenBook running Ableton Live Lite, because he was in a rush and that was all I had with me. I had no problems whatsoever, and the results were easily up to industry standards. I don't say that to boast, I just can't help but think that people must be taxing their devices with heavy apps and plugins unnecessarily most of the time, or running them at ridiculous resolutions.

It's the same with the iPad: i.e. I'm touring with a lowly 2017 iPad 9.7 inch (which I've read nothing but complaints about online). I'm using a handful of well-designed synth apps, and it has proven stable and the sonic results are, again, as good as one would ever need. And I have a reputation for delivering good tones and an exceptional live mix. Just saying...

I think people forget just how far beyond human perception audio processing has gone. The frequencies, sample rates, and bit depths at which we choose to work are truly insane, and most of the time offer no advantages in practical application. It's the same thing in photography (my wife is a professional photographer) and video production: i.e. people insist on working at resolutions that far exceed human perception, simply because they can. It's silliness really.

Anyway, it sounds to me like the OP is a hobbyist, in which case his 2012 MacBook Pro should be more than adequate for merely playing a few sounds with the LinnStrument. And if it's bogging down under such light usage, something else is amiss there. Otherwise, buy yourself a cheap iPad, a Camera Connection Kit, Animoog, Model D, or LayR and have at 'er. Tons of fun to be had there - seriously - especially if you're just looking to noodle. And this is coming from a professional player and sound designer with lofty expectations.

If you were gigging, my only caution with regards to using an iPad would be its connectivity: i.e. it can be a bit of a closed ecosystem when it comes to getting audio and MIDI in and out of the thing; so depending on the demands of the production your touring with, there are limited options for routing and interfacing with peripherals in a comprehensive way. But for home use... Pff.

Cheers!

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Another plus-one for your current Mac being good enough for your intended needs. I am still using a 2012 MBP, albeit the i7 version. However, with Logic's freeze function on hand, and am still able to run anything I want. Still get pretty deep into projects without rendering at all

Regarding ram: That year's models allow easy user-upgrades (worth checking to confirm with your model). It's cheap and easy to go from 8gb to 16gb, and I also replaced the boot with an ssd (Improved the feel of every single action), and replaced the dvd drive with a caddy containing a hdd (Might even swap that out for an ssd at some point). I can see myself riding this one out to the end, like I did the previous one.

My iPad is the same age, although that suffers more from being locked into ios9. Can still make music with it, though

[Tj Shredder]

I have a 2015 Macbook Air 11“ i7 and can run either my monster Max patch or a sequencer to play my Linnstrument sounds.
I doubt that the Macbook pro 12“ is too slow in general, unless you have a browser open the same time. The advice to give it more ram and a ssd is a good one. In addition to my Air also have an iPad mini 3, which is a lot of fun with the Linnstrument. Tons of expressive MPE capable synths (cheap and god sounding), but you‘d mainly play presets. You definitely need a real computer, but you have one already. A recent Macbook pro is very capable, but is asking for so much money, that it might be hard to buy synths on top of it...

[tiantong]

Hi all

First of all, thank you all for your replies.
Second, RAM upgrade is not possible in my model, as they are solded into the motherboard.

but I would really like to extend the life of my mac, so maybe the best is investing first on the Linnstrument and then see what happens

I have checked the Activity monitor while playing on Logic, 3 instances of Alchemy and one with Ultrabeat, a 4 bar loop. CPU peaks at around 50%. Adding Sugar Bytes Factory it reaches 125%. I would also like to know where my system resources go, John the Savage. I swear I try to keep things tidy, maybe it is that I'm using updated versions of all my programs, as Bobdog suggests.

[BobDog]

Well 50% isn't that bad for your 4 tracks.

Adding Factory is costing you 75% which is nearly a whole core of your two core machine. I don't use Factory but is there a "Quality" setting somewhere that could lower the cpu?

Logic usually saves a thread/core for "Live tracks", so record enabled tracks. I'm not sure if it does this for 2 core machines, what does the logic cpu meter look like?

Also in preferences->Audio->devices

Set summing to 32 bit.
Set process buffer range to Large.

What is your processing threads set to?
What is your I/O Buffer size set to?

And what is the sample rate of your audio interface? (File->project Settings->Audio)

[BobDog]

Ok, I just looked at Factory.

It's the GUI that is using the cpu on my Mac, with the patch "After Destruction" and the plugin GUI open playing a 6 note chord I have logic using 85% cpu, close the Gui and it is 20% cpu.

Might be worth a try for you to see the difference.

[Tj Shredder]

If you can‘t change the RAM you have a Macbook pro retina, which is already significantly faster than the MB pro from 2012...

[John the Savage]

I would also like to know where my system resources go, John the Savage. I swear I try to keep things tidy, maybe it is that I'm using updated versions of all my programs, as Bobdog suggests.

I will leave you in BobDog's hands here, because he knows way more about what's really going on inside your machine than I do. But I'm confident that you can get that machine of yours up to the task. I personally know guys that are still using the same machine you have to mix professionally with Logic.

Again though, consider the resolution of the plugins you're using, your DAW settings, your audio interface, etc. As BobDog pointed out, Factory's GUI alone is burning up massive resources, and for what, pretty graphics? As I said, modern software and peripherals presume to use the latest hardware, and as such their demands are often gratuitous. Look at a gaming system for instance: i.e. all that computing power, and it's barely enought to race a pretend car or shoot aliens; meanwhile, that very same computer could practically launch a satellite in real life.

Anyway, the LinnStrument is a compelling playing surface. Coming from the bass guitar, you should take to it like a duck to water. Have fun (grin)...

Cheers!

[raindro]

The Linnstrument plays great with iPads, and I like the synths on my iPad better than my computer. Korg Mono/Poly, iWavestation, Moog Model D, AudioKit Synth 1, there's a bunch of awesome ones!

[tiantong]

I tried Madrona Labs Kaivo and Aalto on both Logic and MainStage. CPU rises at around 100-12'% while Alchemy uses barely 30 or less. Actually with Alchemy and Sculpture (really ugly interface) I have a lot to play around so I´ll stick to them, skip purchasing a new apple device and invest in the Linnstrument.

But yes, it is with Factory I have experienced most issues. Closing the GUI could be an option but what about tweaking sounds, experimenting...?

Raindro, it was the Animoog that made me turn to music again and it was through the Animoog YouTube videos that I came to know about the Linnstrument. Waldorf Nave (to the extent my ipad can take), DRC and Zeeon. My favorite now is Mersenne tough.

[BobDog]

I tried Madrona Labs Kaivo and Aalto on both Logic and MainStage. CPU rises at around 100-12'% while Alchemy uses barely 30 or less. Actually with Alchemy and Sculpture (really ugly interface) I have a lot to play around so I´ll stick to them, skip purchasing a new apple device and invest in the Linnstrument.

Kaivo and Aalto are heavy on cpu from the DSP side, lots of more modern plugins are designed to run on more powerful cpus than the one you have.

I think the idea of sticking to plugins that don't suck the life out of the cpu is a good way to go, both alchemy and sculpture are great synths. Also just use "last gen" plugins, things like NI FM8, NI Absynth, NI Massive, the older arturia stuff etc. All really good stuff and low cpu usage.

I would spend the money on the Linnstrument

But yes, it is with Factory I have experienced most issues. Closing the GUI could be an option but what about tweaking sounds, experimenting...?

The GUI issue is because there are not using the GPU and they are updating loads of stuff on the GUI all the time which is being done by the CPU. As I said it took 85% of one of the cores on my Mac which has a more powerful cpu than the laptop, the gui was using 65% of a core, This sort of thing you can get away with if you have many cores but on a 2 core machine you are loosing a lot of your total cpu. The best bet is if you want to do tweaking is to freeze every other track in your project.