Considering a Linnstrument

[jsterne]

In theory, yes. But have you actually tried to map a surface that is not supported by Bitwig? I have and it’s been miserable. The 3rd options for the MIDI fighter twister are not useful for me at all (I’m sure they’re super useful for the person that designed them), and it would take me more than a day to set it up how I want and that would be a day of boring, repetitive work. I can do what I want in Live in about 5 minutes. Flexibility is great, but sometimes simplicity is better. Horses for courses.

Bitwig is great for a lot of things specifically related to Linnstrument and some of its modular options, but depending on what you want to do, Live is is a much more mature solution. We don’t know much about how the OP uses Live, so I don’t want to assume they will find everything they need in Bitwig. I certainly have not.

[Echoes in the Attic]

In theory, yes. But have you actually tried to map a surface that is not supported by Bitwig? I have and it’s been miserable. The 3rd options for the MIDI fighter twister are not useful for me at all (I’m sure they’re super useful for the person that designed them), and it would take me more than a day to set it up how I want and that would be a day of boring, repetitive work. I can do what I want in Live in about 5 minutes. Flexibility is great, but sometimes simplicity is better. Horses for courses.

Have you used the generic flexi script from Moss? My controllers are directly scripted so I don't need to. It lets you set up your own control surfaces from any device. I'm not aware of Ableton's ability to do that. Here I mean automapping/instant mapping type control (using host automation values not midi learn). But of course both have simple midi learn as well. I used Live for years and there is nothing that I miss in terms of control surface support. It was altogether much more limiting.

[jsterne]

Yes, I started building fro Moss’ generic flexi based mapping and that’s when I realized how long it would take.

How does generic MIDI learn work in Bitwig? As far as I know, it’s not possible without going through some kind of scripting and assignment (at least, that’s what support told me when I wrote them and asked—they said I had to use one of their generic templates). 13.3 in the manual suggests that it’s possible but I’ve had no luck with the MFT or other unsupported controllers.

[zhund]

AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.

I'm from Montreal and have had a Linnstrument 128 for about a year and a half and I absolutely love it, playing it almost every day. I play a little bit of guitar and bass, but similar to you I had a push and was intrigued by the Linnstrument's isomorphic layout. The Linnstrument is my primary instrument, and I don't find anything else to be as fun or inspiring to play. I primarily use Mainstage 3 for live performance and Ableton Live for my full songs. I know Ableton doesn't have MPE support, but I don't make use of MPE often for my tracks.

Following the Moen Method (http://www.jeffmoen.com/pricing_lessons.html), I've learned two handed play and love playing improv melodies over ii7-v7-i7 jazz progressions and other fun things.

[letribs]

Thanks for the input l'gros .

I play guitar, bass, keys and drums.
I do a lot of synth based stuff
but I love electric pianos, organs and clavs.

The push falls short with two handed polyphonic playing for me.
I find myself having to go back and do a lot of post production edits (this leads to unproductive and obsessive behavior).

I'm assuming Roger's build has a superior sensor sheet among the gamut of ergonomic design features.

-Improved pressure sensitivity
-Note spacing that better accommodates the human hand
-A larger note range so my hands don't overlap as much
when doing the Left hand bass, right hand treble stuff.

This is what is motivating me to buy a linnstrument.

Jeff's course seems pretty comprehensive btw.

cheers

[mrspiral]

Thanks for the input l'gros .

I play guitar, bass, keys and drums.
I do a lot of synth based stuff
but I love electric pianos, organs and clavs.

The push falls short with two handed polyphonic playing for me.
I find myself having to go back and do a lot of post production edits (this leads to unproductive and obsessive behavior).

I'm assuming Roger's build has a superior sensor sheet among the gamut of ergonomic design features.

-Improved pressure sensitivity
-Note spacing that better accommodates the human hand
-A larger note range so my hands don't overlap as much
when doing the Left hand bass, right hand treble stuff.

This is what is motivating me to buy a linnstrument.

Jeff's course seems pretty comprehensive btw.

cheers

It is an amazing instrument. Just don't buy it for what it is NOT, which was my problem the first time I had one.

I spent weeks and months trying to turn it into a generic multitouch control surface with non-MPE control gestures to surround non-MPE playing styles, got very frustrated, and sold it. A year later, I got another one (after an interim period working a lot more with MPE and having a more mature understanding of what it involved), and fell in love with it.

Theoretically there is no reason why you can't use a wrench to hammer a screw into a board, but you shouldn't complain if your results aren't optimal (either for hammering with a wrench or for using a hammer on a screw).

[Flyby Audio]

It's been almost five years since I bought my first Linnstrument. Since then this ingenious thing got me to start tuning my guitar in all 4ths(after 25 years of playing) and is there every day when I'm composing with Ableton. I’m not using MPE most of the time but I'm happy it's there.
I think everyone should get one! Just wanted to reinforce the vibe here

[Tj Shredder]

Not using MPE a lot seems to be the fault of Ableton; - )
I can only advice all Linnstrumentalists to install at least the 8-track version of Bitwig, even if you got it used, I think Roger can send you a license for free. It is so much fun to play expressive, don‘t miss the biggest advancement since the introduction of Midi...
The workflow in Bitwig can be adapted to your known one in Ableton most of the time, but you get on top complete freedom of modulations. I stopped using modulation matrices within VSTi‘s, as modulating any parameter within Bitwig is faster and I can modulate parameters the synth designer didn‘t think of...

[Reckon104]

I agree with the general sentiment of the comments above in that I unreservedly would recommend the Linnstrument to virtually any kind of musician at any level. There's the obvious advantage of the added expressiveness which is why I originally bought it.

But also (apologies if these points have already been made)

1) Slides are much easier and intuitive to accomplish than with some other popular MPE instruments

2) The layout provides the opportunity for very rich and spread out voicings that are impossible or extremely difficult real time on a keyboard

3) The layout is easy for anyone, including keyboardists, to use right away

4) It rewards disciplined practice far faster than any other instrument I have played (and I've played a few)

5) it is as portable as it gets

6) Roger offers the best tech support of any company I've ever dealt with

7) I have never once felt muscular fatigue relative to playing it (other than realizing I've been sitting and playing for three hours without taking a break)

8 ) in my opinion, it is the most flexible, elegant and practical of all the MPE instruments. Once you get used to it, it can entirely replace the need for a keyboard, so you can easily play piano and organ parts on it but also get all the benefits of MPE for playing synths, "wind" and "string" parts

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. It's changed my musical life.

[LarsDaniel]

1) Slides are much easier and intuitive to accomplish than with some other popular MPE instruments

2) The layout provides the opportunity for very rich and spread out voicings that are impossible or extremely difficult real time on a keyboard

3) The layout is easy for anyone, including keyboardists, to use right away

4) It rewards disciplined practice far faster than any other instrument I have played (and I've played a few)

5) it is as portable as it gets

6) Roger offers the best tech support of any company I've ever dealt with

7) I have never once felt muscular fatigue relative to playing it (other than realizing I've been sitting and playing for three hours without taking a break)

8 ) in my opinion, it is the most flexible, elegant and practical of all the MPE instruments. Once you get used to it, it can entirely replace the need for a keyboard, so you can easily play piano and organ parts on it but also get all the benefits of MPE for playing synths, "wind" and "string" parts

A few comments on that:

1: Yes, yes and yes. LS is the slide king.

3: Nah, but ok, it depends how you define "use". I have played keyboards for 40 years, and I will never be able to use the LS like I use a keyboard. But I do not see that as a negative. They are just very different instruments. But, yes, as far as "figuring out where the notes are", that is easy enough, and given that one has some musicality, one can pick up playing it reasonably fast.

4: Yup. Here the beauty of the isometric layout really shows.

[pdxindy]

In theory, yes. But have you actually tried to map a surface that is not supported by Bitwig? I have and it’s been miserable. The 3rd options for the MIDI fighter twister are not useful for me at all (I’m sure they’re super useful for the person that designed them), and it would take me more than a day to set it up how I want and that would be a day of boring, repetitive work. I can do what I want in Live in about 5 minutes. Flexibility is great, but sometimes simplicity is better. Horses for courses.

Have you used the generic flexi script from Moss? My controllers are directly scripted so I don't need to. It lets you set up your own control surfaces from any device. I'm not aware of Ableton's ability to do that. Here I mean automapping/instant mapping type control (using host automation values not midi learn). But of course both have simple midi learn as well. I used Live for years and there is nothing that I miss in terms of control surface support. It was altogether much more limiting.

The Flexi script is great. One can script it how one wants. Plenty of the ready made scripts (in Bitwig and in Live) are not exactly how I want. With Flexi I can prioritize what’s important to me.

In Live, if there doesn’t happen to be a script for my particular device, then I’m SOL.

Then when it comes to internal device control, Bitwig’s Remote Control pages work much better than what’s in Live.

All of this is a bit off topic as Live doesn’t support MPE or even just record PolyAT. It was exactly because I was buying a Linnstrument that I switched from Live to Bitwig.

Linnstrument and Bitwig is a great combo. The modulation system in Bitwig is awesome. Live is so clumsy in comparison. All the Bitwig instruments are MPE capable. Modulation of Bitwig instruments is per voice. MPE is automatic. The preset system works really well.

And of course the Linnstrument itself is brilliant... and future proof. Roger has said there will be no Linnstrument 2 and that any improvements will be able to be applied to existing hardware. No planned obsolescence. It’s a great investment.

Linnstrument doesn’t need a computer, all configuration is done right on the surface. No app or driver to have to install. It has classic midi ports so it can be plugged right into lots of older hardware. It’s well built, simple and visually appealing. I recommend it without hesitation.

[Roger_Linn]

To be honest, I might make a new LinnStrument model someday, but have no current plans to do so. I do believe in maintaining the existing LinnStrument with updates and upgrades because I think it’s the ethical thing to do.

[LarsDaniel]

I am happy to hear, that you have not closed that door, Roger.
(I was surprised to read the above, saying the opposite.)
After all, we don’t know where we are in a year or five. (Or even next week. )

[pdxindy]

To be honest, I might make a new LinnStrument model someday, but have no current plans to do so. I do believe in maintaining the existing LinnStrument with updates and upgrades because I think it’s the ethical thing to do.

Speaking of Linnstrument... is there any place to buy one in Australia?

[Roger_Linn]

Australia? Not at this time, unfortunately. Dealers seem hesitant to stock expensive non-commodity items in the era of internet dealers. But there around 40 LinnStrument owners there who are usually willing to show theirs to a potential buyer.