Bitwig 3+ is an awesome modular FM playground.

[ckam03]

Looks like I gotta jump on Phase Plant while it's still 99 bucks then. Le sigh

[pdxindy]

Yup.

On the bright side, they left open the possibility of a Wavetable instrument some day. And if they do that, they can probably also easily stick a "module" version of that same thing in The Grid, just like they did with Sampler.

So...... maybe someday.

yup... someday! In the meanwhile, the Grid can do all sorts of evolving sounds as is.

If the Cycles mode is using 2 frames, is there a format that would be 1 frame? A different wavetable format?

[pdxindy]

Looks like I gotta jump on Phase Plant while it's still 99 bucks then. Le sigh

Why do you need Phase Plant?

[ckam03]

Looks like I gotta jump on Phase Plant while it's still 99 bucks then. Le sigh

Why do you need Phase Plant?

If they don't currently have any plans to make it a true wavetable oscillator like what was just discussed, then I'm gonna need a need a dedicated wavetable synth one of these days.

[pdxindy]

Looks like I gotta jump on Phase Plant while it's still 99 bucks then. Le sigh

Why do you need Phase Plant?

If they don't currently have any plans to make it a true wavetable oscillator like what was just discussed, then I'm gonna need a need a dedicated wavetable synth one of these days.

Oh, duh... I was assuming everyone had at least 1-3 wavetable synths already and there was something specifically about Phase Plant you wanted...

[antic604]

And to Antic, I'll simply point out that you can take ANY Serum wavetable and drop it into Phase Plant and it will sound and play exactly the same. Drop that same wavetable into Bitwig's Sampler and NOPE. It's window scanning size will cover at least two frames at a time (and drop in volume as you approach the last couple handfuls of frames in the wavetable). Mostly though, it will just sound fuzzy and have a metallic ringing edge to everything.

Above description (especially the "drop in the volume" bit") suggest to me you're not doing it right:
1) You need to set proper root for the wavetable, if it's not autodetected
2) You need to switch to freeze mode and move Play offset, instead of using scanning window

Otherwise they WILL sound fuzzy and metallic.

[antic604]

Looks like I gotta jump on Phase Plant while it's still 99 bucks then. Le sigh

Do it! It's awesome

[V0RT3X]

How would one go about sampling the wavetables from Waldorf Largo so I can use them in Serum,bitwig etc?

Any tutorials on this would be appreciated

[Tj Shredder]

Looks like I gotta jump on Phase Plant while it's still 99 bucks then. Le sigh

Do it! It's awesome

I like Pigments, Synthmaster and even the free Surge better. The modulation within the grid is also better in terms of how to set it up, and most preset sounds rely on snap-ins, an ecosystem to bind you and encourage you to spend more money. Most of the snap-ins I find in better quality within the Grid or as Bitwig native devices.
Surge combined with some extra fx should already be more powerful (and way, way cheaper...)
I played for a month with PP and always thought, “oh in the Grid it would be easier”. The only usable oscillator in Phase Plant is the wave table agreed, but the rest was meh anyway...
(I must admit, I like oscillators with wave bending options way more interesting than wave tables...)

[antic604]

I like Pigments, Synthmaster and even the free Surge better. The modulation within the grid is also better in terms of how to set it up, and most preset sounds rely on snap-ins, an ecosystem to bind you and encourage you to spend more money. Most of the snap-ins I find in better quality within the Grid or as Bitwig native devices. Surge combined with some extra fx should already be more powerful (and way, way cheaper...). I played for a month with PP and always thought, “oh in the Grid it would be easier”. The only usable oscillator in Phase Plant is the wave table agreed, but the rest was meh anyway... (I must admit, I like oscillators with wave bending options way more interesting than wave tables...)

Sure, if you look at it through the prism of money there are indeed cheaper solutions (or within the same bracket - more powerful ones) and Bitwig / Grid itself can do a lot - if not more - of this.

Still, this doesn't take away from PP being a fantastic, semi-modular instrument with great workflow. I've lots of VSTs and was never tempted to make a track using one instrument for all the sounds, but with PP I actually did it (well, a well developed draft - but still), because I had so much fun with it! It's different than most 'regular' fixed architecture VSTs, while at the same time not being as complex as Bazille or Reaktor.

To anyone considering the cost, I'd recommend getting into subscription - and I never do that for music production tools! - because you pay 9.99 a month and ger $100 every year back to your kHs account to spend on whatever you like. So it's kinda like rent-to-own scheme for Serum or Sylenth1.

I personally had The Works bundle (all kHs plugins) which I bought on sale few months before PP was released, so upgrade path for me was relatively inexpensive, which I admit may colour my point of view

[Tj Shredder]

Yeah, this shows, there is also a matter of taste. PP did not click with me, but if it clicks with you, you’ll have a tool that you actually use...
The lack of MPE support is of course also a problem for me...

[ckam03]

Yeah, this shows, there is also a matter of taste. PP did not click with me, but if it clicks with you, you’ll have a tool that you actually use...
The lack of MPE support is of course also a problem for me...

Ohh so Pigments supports MPE? I want to pick up a Seaboard in the coming months so PP wouldn't be a good option then. That thought hadn't even crossed my mind at all

[ckam03]

And to Antic, I'll simply point out that you can take ANY Serum wavetable and drop it into Phase Plant and it will sound and play exactly the same. Drop that same wavetable into Bitwig's Sampler and NOPE. It's window scanning size will cover at least two frames at a time (and drop in volume as you approach the last couple handfuls of frames in the wavetable). Mostly though, it will just sound fuzzy and have a metallic ringing edge to everything.

Above description (especially the "drop in the volume" bit") suggest to me you're not doing it right:
1) You need to set proper root for the wavetable, if it's not autodetected
2) You need to switch to freeze mode and move Play offset, instead of using scanning window

Otherwise they WILL sound fuzzy and metallic.

This guy tested it out and it sounds the same as other synths. It sounds better in the grid because of the oversampling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZZ4onDdzYU

[antic604]

This guy tested it out and it sounds the same as other synths. It sounds better in the grid because of the oversampling.

He makes the same error - you need to enable Freeze and use modulator (eg. an envelope) to go through the wavetable. Also he seems to not be aware he just can right-click on the sample withing Sampler and choose the option to find the root note automatically (instead of having to remember and type in the values).

Don't get me wrong - I appreciate his videos, but this particular one isn't the best.

But also, I'm not saying Serum or Avenger or Falcon won't sound better with the same wavetable. Sampler just replays what's there in a raw form, whereas specialised VSTs will employ realtime interpolation between existing frames of the wavetable and/or antialiasing for higher pitch playback.

[pdxindy]

Yeah, this shows, there is also a matter of taste. PP did not click with me, but if it clicks with you, you’ll have a tool that you actually use...
The lack of MPE support is of course also a problem for me...

Ohh so Pigments supports MPE? I want to pick up a Seaboard in the coming months so PP wouldn't be a good option then. That thought hadn't even crossed my mind at all

Icarus, Hive, Serum and Pigments all support MPE now.

I like Icarus best for resynthesis... Hive has the best interpolation and a great workflow. The modulation setup is noteworthy in Pigments.