Bitwig

dreamnext · Post by **dreamnext** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:45 am

Recently I updated my Bitwig to its 3.03 version, Linux edition.

However, my Windows VSTs (managed via Airwave and Wine 4.21) stopped working properly. Two examples:

-Sytrus opens its window, but the virtual keyboard and most buttons are rendered unclickable.
-Synthmaster would not even open its window, and it also causes Bitwig to be unable to close or work properly, eventually appears the “Error saving the state of some plug-ins” dialog.

Just to be sure, I reinstalled my previous Bitwig version (2.3.5) and those VSTs work fine again, as expected.

Tried with Bitwig 3.1 beta 3, and Windows VSTs are not working.

Are you Linux guys and gals aware of this issue? if so, what can be done to fix it?

Thanks in advance.

Edit: Tested on Bitwig 2.5.1 (the last one of the 2.x series) and here also the Windows VSTs failed to work, so it seems that this issue was not introduced in the 3.x series...

cosmicx · Post by **cosmicx** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:54 pm

Same here on Linux Mint + KXStudio repo. My Novation V-Station and Bass Station VST stopped working since Bitwig 2.5. Have tried with airwave and different version of linVst and wine.
Works with Bitwig 2.4, and reaper.
Some old free windows vst work only if MPE is disabled in Bitwig 2.5 (not yet tried in 3.03)

dreamnext · Post by **dreamnext** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:47 am

Thanks for your answer Cosmicx

Well, I was able to solve the Sytrus issue. On close inspection, it wasn’t that its virtual keyboard and buttons became unresponsive, what actually happened is that Sytrus window required to be clicked about three centimeters above for the place that I wanted to click. That was useful to be able to use the virtual keyboard (placed on the bottom) and some knobs below the half part, but totally impossible to select presets and other stuff located on the upper part of the window.

Incredibly, I was able to solve this by changing desktop environment. Instead of using PopOS desktop, I switched to Moksha. That solved the issue for Sytrus, and it seems to have fixed issues in my other Windows based VSTs.

However, I was not able to make Synthmaster work again in Bitwig 3.x By merely trying to load it, Bitwig becames unresponsive with or without MPE. As stated previously, Synthmaster works on Bitwig 2.3.5 (and should work on 2.4.x, too). Synthmaster also loads fine in another wine-based DAW running in Linux, so it seems something went wrong in Bitwig for Linux since 2.5, that made Windows based VSTs stop working fine, which is very bad news on the Linux platform.

glokraw · Post by **glokraw** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:15 am

I've also noted some oddities, I use Reaper and Bitwig 8-track,
and have Moksha on one setup, and cousin E21 on another.
also with wine-staging 4.21.
In my case, it was SynthMaster One in Reaper with issues, I had to roll
back to an earlier SM_One release, which works fine.
Haven't checked yet in 8-Track.

My theory is that developers are having difficult issues keeping up
with the latest pc and mac OS's, and sacrificing solid code
for workarounds that keep win 10 and catalina from wreaking havoc.

I also considered that wine-staging has advanced enough, that many
of my wine over-rides were excess baggage. So I followed the lead
of the LinVst documentation, and made a .wine that used only
the three over-rides mentioned in the waves folder from the list
on the left side of the LinVst git page, along with the general guidance
from the main documentation. I think when changing
LinVst versions, you also need to remove all the existing .so versions,
and remake them in the new version. (don't quote me on that

)
I'm working my way through installing some Native Instruments plugins
in the slenderized .wine, 9 out of 9 are working so far.
Cheers

glokraw · Post by **glokraw** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:17 am

Rebooted, and fired up linux Bitwig 8 Track to test, in Mint 18/Enlightenment,
worked OK last time, but today, not a peep out of midi...keyboard controller
is correct, audio connections are fine, but vst plugins and FM4 remain silent,
worked last time, when trying out 8-Track V3.03 with fm4, polysynth, and some vst plugins from U-he, Fathom, and some freeware...but today

The audio track input
from my Alesis QS8 is fine, so keypresses are living. Switched from Jackd to Alsa,
nobody named midi home there either...

Fired up linux Reaper 5.987, no problems, loaded SynthMaster 2.9,
Massive, the new SynthMaster One, all singing/dancing

Some

days!

Weird Java issues on the loose?

dreamnext · Post by **dreamnext** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:05 am

Tried to do as you, switching Bitwig 3.03 from Jack to ALSA. Sadly, here Synthmaster 2.9 behave as before, it does not even show its window, and left Bitwig in an unusable state.

Also tried downgrading Synthmaster to 2.7. No luck, same behavior.

I haven’t had any issues with the native plugins of Bitwig, though...

Dozius · Post by **Dozius** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:22 am

LinVst README wrote:Bitwig

For Bitwig 2.5 and 3.0, In Settings->Plug-ins choose "Individually" plugin setting and check all of the LinVst plugins. For Bitwig 2.4.3, In Settings->Plug-ins choose Independent plug-in host process for "Each plug-in" setting and check all of the LinVst plugins.

Did you see this bit in the LinVst readme?

dreamnext · Post by **dreamnext** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:06 am

Well, I'm not using LinVST, using Airwave instead.

And yes, Synthmaster is chosen as an "Individually" plugin. Tried with or without that setting, same results.

As cosmicx pointed, some VSTs stopped working since Bitwig 2.5, although they do work just fine in 2.3.x-2.4.x. And he also stated that "Have tried with airwave and different versions of linVst", so the use of Airwave or LinVST does not seem to be the issue here, afaik.

gelabs · Post by **gelabs** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:23 pm

I'm using Jack/Carla (KxStudio) and Valhalla plugins and occasionally D16's Phoscyon, everything works correctly except one thing (since v2.5) : drop down menus don't work when using bitwig in fulscreen mode.

mevla · Post by **mevla** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:59 pm

I'm EXTREMELY wary of updating the Bitwig 2.4.3 that I'm using since early 3.0 reports on u-he synths not working (u-he Linux forum). I've emailed Bitwig support and of course, everything works fine, no worries. Now it pops up again. I almost considered upgrading to the current 3.x two weeks ago - glad I didn't !!

I DO NOT want to spend time searching for workarounds, trying out fixes and all that. I do enough software as part of regular work. When I sit to make music, it's to make music. Maybe a little configuration but that's it. I'm also wary of anything that could disturb this current setup. Recently I got comments about running Kontakt 6 (and some from glokraw - thanks) and I'm wary about doing anything with wine configuration that could affect negatively the current setup.

In Xubuntu 18.04 I run wine-4.5 (Staging) and linvst from git (around January 2019). I haven't done any wine 'overrides' (about which I'm fairly ignorant anyways).

I regularly use, in addition to Linux plugins, plugins from Melda, Voxengo, Rob Papen, Tone2, KV331, Sonic Charge, IK Multimedia, LinPlug, Image Line, Sugar Bytes, Psychic Modulation, the MUX synth and sometimes, Fathom. What will I get, after all, by updating to Bitwig 3.x ? As far as modular is concerned I already have MUX and Bazille. Unless the reports changes regarding Windows VST in Bitwig Linux, and lots of positive feedback start appearing, 2.4.3 might be the last Bitwig I'll be running. Which I don't mind as I find I still have a lot to discover, with both Bitwig and the plugins.

Cheers.

sth · Post by **sth** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:15 am

FWIW, I've only had recent failures after maybe 2.4 or 2.5 for: any WINE plugin that alters MIDI data, and then specifically Spire. I know that the MIDI issue is specific to Bitwig and recent versions, but I have nothing to suggest that the Spire issue is with Bitwig.

Mevla, I run many of the same plugins as you, and I'm on 3.0.3 without issues other than what I mentioned. I update wine-staging-git and linvst-git pretty frequently as well. Kontakt 6 specifically has not had issues either. I also run all the U-he plugins natively, and while I haven't updated any since June, I haven't had a single issue there.

dreamnext · Post by **dreamnext** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:19 pm

mevla wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:59 pm I'm EXTREMELY wary of updating the Bitwig 2.4.3 that I'm using since early 3.0 reports on u-he synths not working (u-he Linux forum). I almost considered upgrading to the current 3.x two weeks ago - glad I didn't !!

Lucky you! If I knew about these issues, I certainly would have not paid another year of subscription, still staying on my 2.3.5 hiatus

In summary:

-All Windows VSTs known to work on Linux will be fine by merely running a Bitwig version up to 2.4.x

-If running Bitwig 2.5.x to 3.x, a lot of Windows VSTs will cease to work. This causes a strange paradox: Bitwig has not fixed these issues on the officially supported Linux version, but on the Linux unsupported DAWs (such as FL and Ableton) the VSTs are working just fine.

-Might be some workarounds to be able to use Windows VSTs on Bitwig 2.5.x – 3.x. One shared here to use Sytrus was by switching the Desktop Environment to Moksha, as for some really weird bug it does not work fine on GNOME based desktops. Valhalla and D16's Phoscyon would work as long as Bitwig is not running in fullscreen mode.

-Some VSTs seem to not have a workaround on 2.5-3.x, such as Synthmaster (although glokraw reported that he is running it without problems), also no fix for Novation V-Station and Bass Station.

sth · Post by **sth** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:07 am

I think it's a bit more nuanced than you suggest. Sytrus still works for me with the previously mentioned latest versions, and I'm running a GNOME-based desktop. Valhalla plugins also work for me, and I don't really have the concept of "fullscreen" mode but in both cases that I'd call it fullscreen, it's still working there as well.

I also think it's too simple to say "All Windows VSTs known to work on Linux" since that is so install-dependent. I run a small chat group of open-source focused musicians, and even there almost everyone has a different experience with the same few plugins.

gennargiu · Post by **gennargiu** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:25 am

Used gnu linux vst native on Bitwig Studio not vst windows from wine, it's not good

dreamnext · Post by **dreamnext** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:50 pm

I personally use U-he Hive and Glitch in their native Linux editions, because I really like them and it is a way to support companies that develop native VSTs. Nevertheless, given the reality that a tiny segment produces Linux VSTs, and the fact that tons of great VSTs are not made as native plugins for Linux, I failed to see why is not good to use them via Wine, specially that in my case as well as a the experience of a lot more people, they were working just fine prior Bitwig 2.5.x-3-x

Yes, there might be different experiences in every person using the same plugins. However, that does not change the fact that some code change/bug from Bitwig 2.5 messed the use of a number of Windows VSTs on its Linux edition. Downplaying those issues as mere “personal experiences” from those affected seems like a very convenient way to disregard a situation that did not exist previously, and arose ONLY as the result of upgrading Bitwig to 2.5-3.

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