Low and muffled sound in Bitwig???

[docbot]

I think it might be simply be that Bitwig has a lower volume output due to the headroom setting, which is great, but if you're a novice user, you might think that Ableton sounds better because of the db difference

[defelie]

Thank you for your heartwarming comments on me and your interest in me haha.
If you want I can even send my song to you so you can judge me :p

I bought bitwig 1.1 back then and kept using v1 until v3 came out.
My setup is 48khz where samples are 44.1khz where SRC matters at least as I said.

I might be wrong in my perception, I am not gonna deny that.
so be harsh on me if you want.

And yeah, all the DAWs sound the same because SRC, pan law, automation behaviors, and internal bit depth, everything is the same in all DAWs, and developers never had any mistakes on internal processes such as forgetting dither on truncation and no customer ever could tell the differences and report it, and all the subtle errors and differences are inaudible, and absolute no one including trained ears can hear the differences even with cumulative nature of physics as it's just too subtle.
And it's the dumbest thing you could ever do in a forum to post like one DAW sounds better than another, and people can attack on you, most likely a novice, fan boy, who doesn't make actual music, who doesn't know science or a creepy audiophile who brainwashed by marketing hypes. And it's awfully sinful to say "worse" as it's a negative word even it's just a relative word.
And yeah sure and I'm not knowledgeable about it because I only posted a few in a forum

yeah I understand what you mean (I am not saying you meant what I wrote above here)

Anyways, I just say, I believe we (except a few negative people) would agree
that having SRC that is as good as or better than V1 is nicer in case the V3's SRC is the same as V2.
This is not a negative thing, it'd be safe to say this.

[JHernandez]

Curious, why don't you work with 48khz samples instead? As in convert them yourself with something like Izotope or similar if need to be?

[BobDog]

I guess the best bet is to render the project in the 2 different versions and post the wav files, then we can have a listen.

I myself have noticed no difference between the different versions but then again I'm a guitar player with cloth ears.

[defelie]

Curious, why don't you work with 48khz samples instead? As in convert them yourself with something like Izotope or similar if need to be?

Well, yeah I would do that, of course

[wavedigit]

Well, don't forget about SRC (sample rate converters).

Sample rate converters (SRCs) are often used when working with digital audio, even when the user isn't aware of it. Almost every ADC or DAC converter, whether it is an expensive external unit or a cheap sound card, is working with so called "oversampling", performing A/D or D/A conversion at a higher sampling rate (up to a few megahertz) and lower bit depth (typically 1 bit). Such oversampling is performed in the digital domain by DSP inside of the converter. Software sample rate conversion can happen transparently for the user, inside a sampler or during mixing of audio streams at different sampling rates by the operating system, or at the user's command (i.e. converting a project from 96 kHz to 44.1 kHz during the mastering of an Audio CD.) - http://src.infinitewave.ca/help.html

Here's a comparison of popular software, not least, DAWs, including Bitwig 2.4.3: http://src.infinitewave.ca/

Interesting to see such a difference: https://i.imgur.com/hR58Z0u.png
I wonder what the result would be if it was take from The Grid (considering its 4x oversampling)

[antic604]

Thank you for your heartwarming comments on me and your interest in me haha...

With all due respect, but I don't think you'd be able to recognise the difference in sound resulting from SRC discrepancies like those at that link. Have you done any blind tests? Or is it just a convenient fact you can use to "prove" Bitwig's sound is 'muffled'?

[defelie]

Thank you for your heartwarming comments on me and your interest in me haha...

With all due respect, but I don't think you'd be able to recognise the difference in sound resulting from SRC discrepancies like those at that link. Have you done any blind tests? Or is it just a convenient fact you can use to "prove" Bitwig's sound is 'muffled'?

Well, it's very fair to assume like that for sure objectively. I might not be able to tell the SRC difference.

Generally, I am able to recognize subtle sonic differences especially WHEN it's A/B compared.
My ear is very sensitive. But this is not scientifically proven as it's just me saying I can tell some subtle differences.
And in this case, I didn't do any blind test.
Therefore your statement might be true.
I might not able to detect the subtle distortions in this case and there is a chance that my perception might've been wrong as I said earlier.

I was trying to give an answer to why "I" felt it's muffled. I technically didn't state the reason of the perceptionally muffled sound is caused by SRC. I rather used the word "worse" in the first post to at least explain a possible reason of why I felt that in my particular enviroment. Not all the people are working on 48khz with 44.1khz samples.

If this is not the reason, then I have to think about other factors. Like, Bitwig automation produces more IMD (it is possible though), or truncation or low pass filters in process (the Bitwig sampler has or had a lpf apparently. I saw this in other thread), or "digital values are the same but the sound is different when streamed through audio driver" types of hypothesis.

But I didn't want to go for all possibility, when SRC might explain the reason of it.
And as SRC is the one possible thing we could take look at regardless of my perception, so I stated like my previous post.

Hope this answers your question.

[Yokai]

It's the thread that will never die

[loungepanda]

Well, it's very fair to assume like that for sure objectively. I might not be able to tell the SRC difference.

Generally, I am able to recognize subtle sonic differences especially WHEN it's A/B compared.
My ear is very sensitive. But this is not scientifically proven as it's just me saying I can tell some subtle differences.
And in this case, I didn't do any blind test.
Therefore your statement might be true.
I might not able to detect the subtle distortions in this case and there is a chance that my perception might've been wrong as I said earlier.

I was trying to give an answer to why "I" felt it's muffled. I technically didn't state the reason of the perceptionally muffled sound is caused by SRC. I rather used the word "worse" in the first post to at least explain a possible reason of why I felt that in my particular enviroment. Not all the people are working on 48khz with 44.1khz samples.

If this is not the reason, then I have to think about other factors. Like, Bitwig automation produces more IMD (it is possible though), or truncation or low pass filters in process (the Bitwig sampler has or had a lpf apparently. I saw this in other thread), or "digital values are the same but the sound is different when streamed through audio driver" types of hypothesis.

But I didn't want to go for all possibility, when SRC might explain the reason of it.
And as SRC is the one possible thing we could take look at regardless of my perception, so I stated like my previous post.

Hope this answers your question.

So last week I worked on a project which sounded tight, but upon revisiting it today it sounds like a donkey mixed it.

What you're experiencing is more than likely just that. If you insist that it isn't then please re-download the older client and export both versions so they can be compared.

[Enrize]

Welcome to the "Muffled Club"! You have been invited!

- Ableton Live
Audio clip sounding muffled

https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=148897

- Steinberg Cubase
Mixdown export sounds muffled, boxed-in

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46135

- Logic Pro X
Audio muffled when importing to Logic Pro

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2013660

- Studio One
Sound is muffled when mastering

http://forumsarchive.presonus.com/posts/list/5192.page

- FL Studio
FL STUDIO - drums are muffled and quiet??

https://www.futureproducers.com/forums/ ... et-533636/

- Pro Tools

Muffled Audio
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=346778

[Yokai]

Well-played @Enrize!

[Biscotto]

When the problem is the auto-fade then it is a legit observation.
Of course it’s not the DAW but the method used by the DAW to import a sample.

[Biscotto]

But again Ableton has those wonderful Cytomic filters... just saying...

[craigtumps]

As loungepanda said, bounce the different versions and we can try to hear the difference you are suggesting.