Live looping and Bitwig

Official support for: bitwig.com
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

Hey,
relatively new Bitwig user here, I bought it for my looping and jamming project because of how good it felt to work with the DAW.

1) Just a general question to the community: are there some people here who do live looping with Bitwig? I filled a room with mics, guitars and MIDI-controllers only for experimenting with looping and randomisation. In my case this leads to a unusual project template and a lot of questions, so maybe we could start a thread (maybe even this one) to talk about this specific way of making music?

2) Since Bitwig still has no looper I wanted to ask the community, what do you think about a concept like the Playtime plugin by Helgoboss for Reaper? It's a VST plugin that gives Reaper its own clip launcher but adds a lot of functionality compared to Live or Bitwig. This way it's a very powerful multitrack looper for MIDI and audio. The most important difference is that you can disable "exclusive mode" which means that you can record and play as many clips per track as you want at the same time. And there are different additional trigger modes, for example "record/play --> stop/retrigger" so that it's possible to record, play and stop/restart with only one button per clip.

I could imagine a lot of advantages by just taking the vision of Bitwig as it is now and add this concept. Just take a Launchpad/Push/etc. and you'd have a multitrack looper for every track with at least 8 layers per track and all the routing and controller scripting already done. And the clip launcher is nicely positioned in the center of the DAW. Adjust the controler scripts for the ability to delete individual clips. The developers could even expand the randomisation options, instead of randomizing the sequence of clips we could define the probability of a clip to play and even make playback of a clip dependent on whether anonther is playing or not.

Post

I won't pretend to have a lot (or any, actually) experience with using Bitwig for live looping, but from what I heard it's not great for that. Playing and controlling pre-recorded stuff from Clip Launcher - sure. But live recording loops, not really.

Have you seen this - seems like a much better choice:
https://zenaud.io/

https://youtu.be/FoNpDjoo-Sk?list=PL0dh ... TpA2hK6sGQ
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Post

antic604 wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:30 am Have you seen this - seems like a much better choice:
https://zenaud.io/
Yes I saw these guys on an IMSTA festa event some years ago. I liked it a lot, but was under the impression that the software is mainly about "composing" a looping arrangement and then kind of following your own instructions. Since I'm more interested in not knowing beforehand what I'm going to do, I'm looking for a more spontaneous way. But maybe they also offer a less scripted approach, should be availabe for Windows now, also. Will be something I try, thank you!

At the moment I'm using Maschine VST and also Enso https://www.audiodamage.com/products/ad049-enso inside Bitwig for the looping. Works nicely but a bit convoluted... Routing a track to Maschine and triggering the multiple Enso instances is already configured to work with my MIDI controllers. Not sure how easy controller scripting would be with ALK, especially things like visual feedback which I find very important.

Post

I bought Bitwig 3 and started to do the same thing as you did, with audio an midi looping: such a mess in Bitwig. Simply doesn't work. I mean: something that takes so many time (script your controllers, find in the library jungle whant you need, test, re-test, modify...) for a result that works sometimes for less than 2 minutes and then struggle (losing controlers, plugin crashes, midi CCs not responding ) , it's not working, period.

I'll maybe try ALK or the Playtime plug inside Reaper.

Post

so it's mainly about reliability when people say Bitwig is not the right choice for looping? I thought it's more about a lack of features. Well in my case Bitwig had a way better performance than Live and could even cope with more plugins than Reaper. Is MIDI generally shaky in Bitwig? And would Live be better?

The reason I switched from Reaper was mainly the look and feel where Bitwig really hit home for me. And for example how easy it is to edit clips. That's where Reaper is lacking imo. But Reaper is of course very flexible, probably why a plugin like Playtime exists for it.

Post

I use Bitwig with an APC20 for live looping and it's perfect for what I want to achieve. It does 90% of what a true live looper does and is rock solid and is now an integral part of my live set for spontaneous looping. The clips are effectively in permanent 'multiply' mode which suits me just fine.
You can record spontaneously, multiply, quantise record off to the bar and then auto-play. That's what I need! OK you cannot overdub audio (but can midi) clips, but I just start another track/clip!

What I like about it is the fact that it is also a DAW at the same time and brings that feature set to the party..i.e Midi loops..a huge deal in comparison to most loopers.
I looked at ALK and I agree with your summary. I have been using Logelloop and you might want to look at it too.
Last edited by pinki on Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Post

skarabee wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:04 am I bought Bitwig 3 and started to do the same thing as you did, with audio an midi looping: such a mess in Bitwig. Simply doesn't work. I mean: something that takes so many time (script your controllers, find in the library jungle whant you need, test, re-test, modify...) for a result that works sometimes for less than 2 minutes and then struggle (losing controlers, plugin crashes, midi CCs not responding ) , it's not working, period.

I'll maybe try ALK or the Playtime plug inside Reaper.
That is so not my experience- there must be something wrong with your set-up?

Post

Well, everyone has it's own experience and setup, we are here to share. I'm sure that Bitwig is good with an APC, and using both hands. Mine are on a guitar or bass...
The same setup (triton Taktile49 + footcontroler) works fine with Reaper, Cubase, Live, and even Mixcraft is better as looper !

About controlers in Bitwig: when you want to add one that is not recognized, you have to use Moss's Flexi, wich is fine but time consuming, and you can only assign one controler to one action. Impossible to use a single button to select track and arm it for recording.. :(
If you dont make a template sheet for your controler, you'll have to remind pages and pages of slots and functions, if ever you need to change one small thing on stage.
And the main function for a decent looper is to be able to overdub audio, you can't do it, you'll have to use other clips, or other track. Looping on stage with a foot controler is already a delicate thing, imagine when you nedd to press 3 or 4 switches just to make another record...
Not to mention the fact that you have to stop playing if you want to use Undo.

And finally the fact that making scripts for controlers rely only to a single man-third party utility is dangerous. I saw so many projects abandoned by the devs, we can't be sure that Moss will continue to do the job for us (Thanks to him by the way)

Post

Mmm well an APC 20 is the thing... because it will reveal that Bitwig is designed to do live recording incredibly well.
But yes granted what you say about hands is a good point. I hadn't thought of that as I have my hands free as I'm working in a duo where we both record each other sharing the APC. (though I'm sure the APC Mk2 has a footswitch control for recording?)

I think my point is that Bitwig is absolutely not a "mess". It's incredibly versatile and solid as a rock. Mixcraft is only better as a looper if you can't use your hands.

Overdubbing- yep it can't do it with audio, but it's such a small price to pay when all you have to do is push another clip record button on the APC and you are recording with separate volume control over the new 'pseudo-overdub'
Honestly I've used this scenario live many times, it's really not a mess!

Post

I’d love to see your workflow in a video, or maybe a tutorial? I bet one could adapt the apc script to any foot controller, many can send multiple cc’s per touch, that way even flexi should be able to get them working.
I guess thats the purpose of this thread, share workflows...

Another option is the good old Mobius, but having loops as clips seems more flexible...

Post

Yes- loops as clips is what got me excited about using Bitwig as a looper. It just gives so much more post recording flexibility than Logelloop/Mobius etc cannot provide, and of course midi. I like that blurring of looping and composition. I like being able to 'take-away' the session and expand on it later. Bitwig provides that.
Granted it's not a real looper in that over-dubbing and decay/feedback is an integral part of a loop pedal process and Bitwig cannot do this.
I used to use Mobius but it's really not working on Mac anymore.
I'll think about a video running through my set-up!

Post

Tj Shredder wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:41 pm I guess thats the purpose of this thread, share workflows...
That's exactly what I hoped it could be! 8)
pinki wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:51 pm Yes- loops as clips is what got me excited about using Bitwig as a looper. It just gives so much more post recording flexibility than Logelloop/Mobius etc cannot provide, and of course midi.
So let's say you have a guitar track and a recorded loop playing in a clip, what next if you want to 'overdub'? Duplicate the track and record a new clip?
My problem is, I have many instruments going into Bitwig, in my basic setting there are 10 tracks connected to a mic, guitar or keyboard. So I fear starting a new track for every additional layer would make it very cramped and confusing.

I'm really thinking about trying to imitate the Playtime plugin with a controller scrip for my (or any) 8x8 grid controller (I use a Launchpad Mini). Like split it in half so that there'd be up to 16 groups of 4 buttons, which represent the 4 loops available for each instrument. I'd need as many tracks as there are possible loops (could be hidden in groups), the right audio and MIDI routing and then to assign the buttons to the first clip of every track. Let's see, I've just started controller scripting, it wouldn't be perfect at all but I think I could make it work somehow.
pinki wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:51 pm I'll think about a video running through my set-up!
That would be so cool!

Post

I have a lot of issues with recording clips. Unlike Live where you can record (and monitor) the input and seamlessly play after recording, Bitwig chokes and struggles. I rarely get a smooth monitored loop, though once recorded, it will then play the audio back ok—though Bitwig doesn't add fades which often means clips will click at the loop point. Ach - why!!

It's interesting, Bitwig just released an update with new clip launcher features, but I'd prefer them to get it working well before adding new stuff in.

For this reason, I rarely use the clip launcher - which is a shame as conceptually, I much prefer it over Lives.

Post

domtak wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:52 pm I have a lot of issues with recording clips. Unlike Live where you can record (and monitor) the input and seamlessly play after recording, Bitwig chokes and struggles. I rarely get a smooth monitored loop, though once recorded, it will then play the audio back ok—though Bitwig doesn't add fades which often means clips will click at the loop point. Ach - why!!

It's interesting, Bitwig just released an update with new clip launcher features, but I'd prefer them to get it working well before adding new stuff in.

For this reason, I rarely use the clip launcher - which is a shame as conceptually, I much prefer it over Lives.
I've never had a single issue with the clip launcher... recorded audio loops straight from hardware synths, midi loops, mics, etc... maybe there's some configuration issues on your end? I would give it another try... otherwise if the problems keep ocurring try to explain them a little better in here and someone may be able to give your some insights

Post

domtak wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:52 pm Unlike Live where you can record (and monitor) the input and seamlessly play after recording, Bitwig chokes and struggles. I rarely get a smooth monitored loop,
That's really strange. I can record and monitor the input to the clip recorder and it plays seamlessly after recording. That's exactly how I use it in fact! So yeh, something not right.

Post Reply

Return to “Bitwig”