Is Bitwig stable / light on CPU enough? (For heavy projects)

[zengel]

But still, compared to Live and FL (with its instant startup), Bitwig really takes its time to fire up. I know that's not an indication of stability, but yeah it's a luxury we'll probably be able to afford in v4/v5 and up.

My uneducated guess for this slow startup is it's mounting a virtual machine with JRE (or something) to launch the app within this virtual machine. And if it's the case, I understand it's great for multi-os compatibility but secretely my spoiled inner-child is thinking "yuk". I'm sure I'm completely wrong... Am I?

Bitwig starts up in ~7 seconds for me (just tested), and as far as I recall has never taken much longer than that.

I'm on Windows 10, using the latest beta.

I've seen some people report much longer startup times than that though, so it certainly appears to be system specific.

Live Starting faster than Bitwig ? Never had that ! Bitwig always started way faster than Ableton live since the 1.0 version . And they improved that with newer version . I start Bitwig In 10 seconds plus 8s-30s for loading project...compared to ableton ...40s to start the software!!! and it hangs doing stuff for 10 more seconds before i can load my project....and it add 20s-1min to load a project (depending of the project). Launching Ableton ? A nightmare !, i can get a cofee before it starts lol.

[kdogg]

Bitwig loads super quick and can handle heavy loads on Mac Mojave, been blown away by it’s perfomance with plug ins. Ableton is a cpu hog in comparison, Bitwig’s plug in sand boxing is brilliant.

[teilo]

Live Starting faster than Bitwig ? Never had that ! Bitwig always started way faster than Ableton live since the 1.0 version . And they improved that with newer version . I start Bitwig In 10 seconds plus 8s-30s for loading project...compared to ableton ...40s to start the software!!! and it hangs doing stuff for 10 more seconds before i can load my project....and it add 20s-1min to load a project (depending of the project). Launching Ableton ? A nightmare !, i can get a cofee before it starts lol.

On Mac, Bitwig versions before 2.5 have been extremely slow starting up. On my Macbook Pro late 2018, i9, 32GB RAM, it would take 20 to 30 seconds to launch, and occasionally longer. 2.5 brought that way down. The latest 3.0 beta launches in about 10 seconds for me. Ableton, on the other hand, launches in about 5.

[zengel]

Ableton, on the other hand, launches in about 5.

I am not shure cause i don't have a mac but i think your session of live is still in memory.
Windows Does that to (i am on windows) when you start live a first time then close it and open it again just after. and yet i still need ten seconds (on my pc) to open live.
But in most of the case when i close live i just stop using it and the "memory print" of it is deleted.
Then most of the time live does not start as fast as bitwig....at all...
Or ableton used something else making live starting really fast on mac and not on pc...

[teilo]

I am not shure cause i don't have a mac but i think your session of live is still in memory.

What is in memory is not the application, technically, but cached disk IO which can include application code. And while it does matter, it matters far less with modern SSDs.

In any case, my test was comparing re-launch times so that it was apples-to-apples. I launched Bitwig 3.0, quit it, and timed it as I re-launched it. I did the same for Ableton. Other than disk IO, all the rest is purely the process of startup. Whichever way you cut it, Ableton launches twice as fast as Bitwig on Mac. And on versions of Bitwig previous to 2.5, Ableton launched several times faster. If initial launch is compared (after a reboot) the difference is even greater between the two.

[Zacchino]

7sec only? What CPU / Ram are you on?

Also, maybe it has to do with the amount of VSTs I have installed (alot), but why would BW scan those at startup (why not just refresh after the UI is loaded, isn't that what's going on actually? If so then it musn't be the plugins count).

[Zacchino]

On Mac, Bitwig versions before 2.5 have been extremely slow starting up. On my Macbook Pro late 2018, i9, 32GB RAM, it would take 20 to 30 seconds to launch, and occasionally longer. 2.5 brought that way down. The latest 3.0 beta launches in about 10 seconds for me. Ableton, on the other hand, launches in about 5.

Same experience here.
Mmh... Maybe there's something to dig in to find out why others have the opposite performances. What graphic card is BW using? The Integrated Intel GPU or a Discreet nVidia/Radeon GPU?

[Hez]

7sec only? What CPU / Ram are you on?

Also, maybe it has to do with the amount of VSTs I have installed (alot), but why would BW scan those at startup (why not just refresh after the UI is loaded, isn't that what's going on actually? If so then it musn't be the plugins count).

I'm currently on an i9 9900k, 32GB RAM, but startup times were roughly the same on my previous rig which was an i7 4770k with 16GB RAM.

Using integrated graphics at the moment, had a pretty old mid-range graphics card on the previous system.

About 250 VSTs installed at last count (fml...)

[Head Under Water]

I use Bitwig exclusively (started with Cubase, also have Studio One and Ableton) for what I consider full productions that lean on the CPU heavy side. I also use a 12GB project as part of my reliable live setup for shows. I have had the occasional issue/bug I ran into, but the Bitwig team fixes those incredibly quick after they are reported.
Since the OP asked - I also do complete mix & master in Bitwig for releases in Bitwig:
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3saYejVrmC5bMASXq56YvN

For bigger productions, I will say that track freeze is sorely missing in these situations and that the current workaround is a considerable workflow killer. ARA integration would also help things along. But for those drawbacks I enjoy the highly customisable interface, navigation and workflow, which speeds up my process immensely

[Apheo]

Can anyone describe the workflow of bouncing audio and deactivating the plugins and hiding them please?
Do you bounce in place or to the new track? WHat about return tracks or effects after the VST synth? What if I want to change something and bounce it again and so on.

[Hez]

Can anyone describe the workflow of bouncing audio and deactivating the plugins and hiding them please?
Do you bounce in place or to the new track? WHat about return tracks or effects after the VST synth? What if I want to change something and bounce it again and so on.

I typically bounce to a new track pre-fader and then set up any return settings & track volume on the new track. You can do this slightly more quickly by duplicating your track, deleting everything on it, then copying the bounced audio to the new track (if you have a lot of send or volume fader automation for example).

Sometimes I will bounce audio pre-sidechain and pre-reverb (using the Custom option in bounce to new track) if I know I may want to tweak spatialisation etc. further down the line. I then copy the sidechain and reverb onto the bounced track.

After bouncing to new track I deactivate the original track and leave it in the project, or if I'm pretty far along in a project and know I'm happy with the rendered version of it then I'll save a new copy of the project and delete the original track, knowing I can open a previous version of the project to access the MIDI/VST settings if required.

If I want to bounce a track including sends, I solo the track, select the relevant time range on the Master channel, then bounce in place. This will render the soloed track + any sends, without applying any master bus processing. If you bounce to new track from the master then the soloed track will be rendered INCLUDING any master bus processing.

There are a few additional bounce options I've requested from Bitwig in the past that would speed this workflow up a lot:

1. Option to copy send/return settings + automation and volume fader settings + automation to the bounced track

2. Option to include send/return audio when bouncing to new track

3. Option to copy any downstream devices to the new track when bouncing to new track from a custom point in the chain

[Taika-Kim]

There's lots of pros using Bitwig. They might not hang out in the forums etc so much because they're... Well, busy

I'm now finishing an album and two EPs made mostly with BW devices.